Buffy killing Faith - Right/Wrong?
- Thread starter AgentX7k
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I say go Buffy! Eh, I don't particularly care for either but I think that over all, at the time, Faith was WAY out left field. The land of no return. She and Angel both had potential for good but they had both done evil. You know what...this is a pretty good question...I don't know...I would have done what Buffy did but that doesn't make it right. Hmmmm...have to think about this one.
I'm on Buffy's side for a number of reasons:
1. It was basically defense at it's core. I mean say Faith had a crossbow on Angel and Buffy had a gun, the obvious choice being to kill Faith to save Angel and no one would have a problem with it, The scenario we are presented with is different but not so much in a way I feel changes the basic argument: Buffy had to kill Faith to save Angel. The only difference is that in my scenario Buffy has seconds to make the choice, in the actual scenario she had a few hours.
2. Don't kill humans, a staple of Buffy morals. However the rule itself is only in place because Buffy operates in the supernatural world, the world of man has it's own rules that she shouldn't mess with. Faith doesn't qualify in that system because of her supernatural strength. She is still human but outside the world of human law because of her power, just like Buffy, her fate is the same as any other vampire or demon.
3. Some say Buffy was motivated by revenge, I don't think she was. If it were she would have gone after Faith long ago, we saw it took Willow like 30 minutes to find her which they could have done at any time, Angel dying just gave Buffy the momentum to do what needed to be done. Not to say she didn't get a down low tickle from doing her in but I don't think that was why she did it.
4. I don't see much hope for another choice. The council were twiddling their thumbs and doing nothing, the police are a dead end since they couldn't hold a slayer against her will. Another option is rehabilitation but under the circumstances there was no time or hope, Faith had turned and you can only ignore her misdoings for so long, they were about to go into battle, their 2nd in command was dying and killing their enemies second in command was the only way to save his life. It made sense from a strategical point as well.
1. It was basically defense at it's core. I mean say Faith had a crossbow on Angel and Buffy had a gun, the obvious choice being to kill Faith to save Angel and no one would have a problem with it, The scenario we are presented with is different but not so much in a way I feel changes the basic argument: Buffy had to kill Faith to save Angel. The only difference is that in my scenario Buffy has seconds to make the choice, in the actual scenario she had a few hours.
2. Don't kill humans, a staple of Buffy morals. However the rule itself is only in place because Buffy operates in the supernatural world, the world of man has it's own rules that she shouldn't mess with. Faith doesn't qualify in that system because of her supernatural strength. She is still human but outside the world of human law because of her power, just like Buffy, her fate is the same as any other vampire or demon.
3. Some say Buffy was motivated by revenge, I don't think she was. If it were she would have gone after Faith long ago, we saw it took Willow like 30 minutes to find her which they could have done at any time, Angel dying just gave Buffy the momentum to do what needed to be done. Not to say she didn't get a down low tickle from doing her in but I don't think that was why she did it.
4. I don't see much hope for another choice. The council were twiddling their thumbs and doing nothing, the police are a dead end since they couldn't hold a slayer against her will. Another option is rehabilitation but under the circumstances there was no time or hope, Faith had turned and you can only ignore her misdoings for so long, they were about to go into battle, their 2nd in command was dying and killing their enemies second in command was the only way to save his life. It made sense from a strategical point as well.
Lindsey McDonald
Spirit Boy
I think what she did was wrong, but I can understand it, and think it was the best option she could take with the information she had and the position she was in. What I don't get is why Buffy doesn't really feel anything over it - she killed Faith just like she killed Ted. Just because they didn't die doesn't mean the intention or action wasn't there. It just seems strange to me that Buffy holds the "I don't kill humans" thing over Faith when she has done, or tried to.
Nix
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Joan the Vampire Slayer
agrees. At this point though, I don't think Buffy saw Faith as human.
Airam
Zen baby.
I think at the time Buffy was thinking more from the point of anger/vengeance...maybe not exactly vengeance but yeah... it was a 'me or her' type scenario in her mind... there seemed to be no other options and saving Angel was top priority. She was pissed at Faith so that added to a sense of saving herself and Angel I can see how she'd come to her choice... not that its right I guess, but I can understand. Faith had shown no regard for her, her friends, or innocent lives in general so I think she was so fed up at that point that she could justify sacrificing Faith.... although I'm not sure her plan was killing her, think she maybe thought she could just allow Angel to feed of her without killing her (like it wound up being with her) but she was prepared for the worst maybe... not sure....
Lindsey McDonald
Spirit Boy
I think she meant to kill her. Faith could tell when she stabbed her that it was meant to be a killing blow, and to be honest, I don't believe Angel could have stopped for anyone but Buffy.
Tueuse de Vampires
Love will tear us apart..
I don't think it was right, Faith was human, and they always made a big deal about killing humans on Buffy.
I can see, however, why she did it.
First of all, Faith was sort of calling for it. I mean, shooting Buffy's vampire boyfriend with a poison that can only be cured by slayer blood? Come on!
But aside from that. Buffy was a teenage girl, seeing her love interest suffer and die, that's bound to make people irrational.
And it is usually in situations like this (great emotional distress) that people through all their morals over board (at least temporarily), and do what they want and what is needed, not what is right.
I can see, however, why she did it.
First of all, Faith was sort of calling for it. I mean, shooting Buffy's vampire boyfriend with a poison that can only be cured by slayer blood? Come on!
But aside from that. Buffy was a teenage girl, seeing her love interest suffer and die, that's bound to make people irrational.
And it is usually in situations like this (great emotional distress) that people through all their morals over board (at least temporarily), and do what they want and what is needed, not what is right.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Agreed. Buffy is only human, after all. Doesn't make it right, but she can't be the 'hero' all time.
I think that was because Ted was an accident and an innocent. Faith was purposeful and she was a murderer. Buffy had emotionally prepared for it prior and felt it was more justified. Faith had hurt her and her friends alot more than Ted did.
I always got the impression that the demons-only rule was because the human world has human laws. Faith doesn't fit into those laws since a jail can't hold her.
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palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
Well, Faith shot Angel with a poison-tipped arrow for which the only cure was slayer blood. There are two slayers: Faith and Buffy. What did she expect? In this scenario, someone has got to die, and who better than the one who started it all by trying to kill Angel? Sometimes you reap what you sow.
I think Buffy was justified. Human law tends to have a loophole for acting in defense of yourself or your loved ones. If someone tries to kill you or your loved ones, it is generally considered right and even noble to try and kill that person right back. The only questionable factor here is the time lapse between the poison arrow and the attempt to feed Faith to Angel. Typically, this loophole only works in the heat of the moment. But since no human law could really cover this situation, I think Buffy made the best decision that she could at the time -- for all the good it did her, given the way things turned out, but still.
Don't kill humans is a good rule of thumb. Sometimes, though, you have to know when to break the rules. If your choice is between a reformed vampire who helps save the world a lot and a rogue slayer who abuses her power and kills whomever she pleases, then it would be sort of irresponsible to choose the rogue slayer just because she leans more toward the human side of the spectrum. You'd really just be unleashing a dangerous force on the world while simultaneously destroying one of the good guys who can help to stop/control that dangerous force. I'd say this is a good time to break the rules.
I think Buffy was justified. Human law tends to have a loophole for acting in defense of yourself or your loved ones. If someone tries to kill you or your loved ones, it is generally considered right and even noble to try and kill that person right back. The only questionable factor here is the time lapse between the poison arrow and the attempt to feed Faith to Angel. Typically, this loophole only works in the heat of the moment. But since no human law could really cover this situation, I think Buffy made the best decision that she could at the time -- for all the good it did her, given the way things turned out, but still.
Don't kill humans is a good rule of thumb. Sometimes, though, you have to know when to break the rules. If your choice is between a reformed vampire who helps save the world a lot and a rogue slayer who abuses her power and kills whomever she pleases, then it would be sort of irresponsible to choose the rogue slayer just because she leans more toward the human side of the spectrum. You'd really just be unleashing a dangerous force on the world while simultaneously destroying one of the good guys who can help to stop/control that dangerous force. I'd say this is a good time to break the rules.
Primal Slayer
Did I Fall Asleep?
I think by that point, Buffy no longer viewed Faith as a human. She looked at her and all she saw was a monster. Faith had it coming to her.
4
4.O.cious Miss
Guest
Re:
I don't think killing someone would ever be a good thing...However, I do understand why she tried to do it. Had it been me (and after all Faith had done), I would have sliced the bitca into minced meat and served her to Angel on a platter- BUT that doesn't make it right. I think Buffy stabbing Faith was a way to make a point that sometimes people do bad things. (And others enjoy it 😉) :hehe:
I don't think killing someone would ever be a good thing...However, I do understand why she tried to do it. Had it been me (and after all Faith had done), I would have sliced the bitca into minced meat and served her to Angel on a platter- BUT that doesn't make it right. I think Buffy stabbing Faith was a way to make a point that sometimes people do bad things. (And others enjoy it 😉) :hehe:
Primal Slayer
Did I Fall Asleep?
Plus just look at Buffys face after she stabs Faith and she goes overboard. Buffy was in a very shocked looking state. Maybe because she lost her blood supply for Angel but it looked like she was surprised at how far things went.
i dont really no where i stand on this i mean on one hand it was faith fault angel was poisend and when you find out slayers blood is needed then obvioulsy your gonna try and get the blood from a "crazed psycho" slayer rather than the "save the world" slayer incase anything does go wrong in the draining of the blood process.
once buffy confronted faith however and they started fighting it became a kill or be killed situation,so you could argue at this point that wheter its a human or demon you are fighting at this stage your gonna do what it takes to not be the one killed.
whether this makes it right or not i cant make my mind up i dont think there is ever a good enough reason to kill someone, but in this situation you could argue self defense as it was a kill or be killed situation
either way by the end of the series we got both slayers working together so all's good 😀
once buffy confronted faith however and they started fighting it became a kill or be killed situation,so you could argue at this point that wheter its a human or demon you are fighting at this stage your gonna do what it takes to not be the one killed.
whether this makes it right or not i cant make my mind up i dont think there is ever a good enough reason to kill someone, but in this situation you could argue self defense as it was a kill or be killed situation
either way by the end of the series we got both slayers working together so all's good 😀
S
Spuffy78
Guest
^^
Like you said it was kill or be killed. We can talk about the situation since it's likely one we won't have. Especially in one like that you don't have the time to think you act upon basic instinct.
Like you said it was kill or be killed. We can talk about the situation since it's likely one we won't have. Especially in one like that you don't have the time to think you act upon basic instinct.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
While I understand her reasoning for wanting to kill Faith, Buffy acted out of grief and with vengeance. What she did made her no different than Faith herself, when you get right down to it... But then again, Faith was evil at the time, and some could say that Buffy killing her would be serving the greater good. But I'm not one of those 'some'.
wehappyfew
Animus
fly on the wall
you have but-face.
Of course it was part in vengeance, but I don't see how that makes it 'wrong.' Faith tried to kill Angel, and nearly succeeded, Angel needs Slayer blood to recover, Faith is a Slayer, makes sense to use Faith's blood. And why shouldn't it be Faith's blood? It was her fault Angel was dying, she was evil and murderous and plotting to destroy the world.
I'm glad Buffy didn't succeed, though. That would have seriously haunted her later, I think. Imagine if Faith had come back as The First...
I'm glad Buffy didn't succeed, though. That would have seriously haunted her later, I think. Imagine if Faith had come back as The First...
But Buffy wasn't acting out of vengeance or grief. Those may have been contributing factors but not primary motivations. If she wanted revenge she could have gone after her at any moment, Angels impending fate put some fire under her ass to do what had to be done from the start. It was about saving Angel, if Angel had died then yes I would agree it was about revenge.
Well if you don't take into account the stuff like circumstance, motivation and the victim then I guess they are the same.
There are many contributing factors to every case which have to be examined individually; this is even how it is done in a court of law.
Buffy was killing a murderer to save an innocent man who she loved; Faith was attempting to poison an innocent man in a conspiracy to kill thousands of people, and that was just one of her crimes, there also the fact that was a renegade killer who could not be held by any jail, plus the only people who could handle her (the council) were doing nothing.
But what other choice was there? Buffy could have simply beat Faith into unconsciousness and then handed her over to the Council in the past. But at the time with the circumstances (Angel/Graduation) that wasn't an option unless she wanted to let Angel die and just kill Faith later in the battle.
Plus I still call what she did defense, she is deciding Angels life is worth more than Faiths, but so does everyone who kills in self-defense, they are deciding that their (or someone else's) life is worth more than the person trying to end it. The only difference is here it's not a split-second decision and appears more like premeditated murder.
Although I could agree that it was a wrong act but the right choice. Like say you have the choice of killing a dog as oppose to not killing it. One is a right and wrong act making it an easy right and wrong choice. But say you then had to choose between killing a dog or a person? In this case killing the dog would be the right choice, but still a wrong act.