Buffy killing humans

E

eunsoma

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I am currently rewatching season 5, and I just watched 'Spiral' (the episode where the scoobies flee Sunnydale in order to protect Dawn). It only just occured to me that Buffy killed people. I know they were 'bad guys' and it's better them than her, but I just thought she would have made some sort of statement or even felt a little remorseful about it. There is a scene (on top of the RV) in which she axes a guy right in the chest.
If this isn't proof enough, the general later says "... and 10 of my men are dead!" We can assume Buffy killed them all in her battle. I just thought it'd get a mention, since there has been this major and constant rule throughout the series that Buffy can't kill humans. For example; she is uneasy about having to kill Faith in s3, she tries to save Warren from Willow, explaining that she can't kill him because "it's not their right" of whatever she says and she gets ridden with guilt when she thinks she killed Katrina in s6.

Of course, this whole issue is based on the assumption that the Knights of 'Buzzantium' (lol) are human.
 
I think they are human. But I also think as in most matters, killing someone in self-defense isnt as bad as just killing someone because you can. Thats the point where Buffy usually draws the line. If the person can be brought to justice or doesnt have to be killed, then you dont need to kill them. But if they are trying to kill you then its fair play.

Buffy knew they could get Warren and probably put him behind bars so she was against killing him. Espically having Willow take a life out of revenge.
 
The whole issue about never killing humans never really came up until Season 3, when Faith killed the Mayor's assistant, and about the only one who made that big an issue of it was Buffy herself. Arguably, Giles' biggest problem with the whole thing was when Faith tried to blame it on Buffy. Certainly he didn't have any objections to killing Ben, or even being the one who insisted on more than one occasion that killing Dawn might be the only, or at least the last, solution to stopping Glory. The distinction between between evil demons and evil humans seemed to be Buffy's alone, and, as was pointed out, she seemed to have changed her mind by Season 5, when the Knights of Byzantium were trying to kill Dawn. As for trying to protect Warren from Willow in Season 6, I think that was more a question of trying to prevent her friend from committing murder than anything else. By Issue 1 of Season 8, she seems to have accepted the fact that killing humans is sometimes the lesser of two evils when she instructs her team not to kill any unless there's no choice, and I'm pretty sure that when and if the time comes, she will kill any of the humans involved with Twilight if it comes down to that.
 
S
Superstar
We agree. And the knights were certainly the good guys, they just had a difference of opinion with Buffy regarding Dawn just like Giles did. It's Buffy's way or the highway. Sometimes both.
Also, you have to remember, it's not only self-defence here. If Buffy was alone, she would have probably taken them out non-lethaly. But they were after Dawn. They wanted to kill her sister, and if they slowed them down, Glory would find them. The situation was desperate, and the matter was forced. Buffy chose the lesser of two evils. She didn't regret it because of the circumstances. She did subsequently go into a mental breakdown however, and it's not unreasonable to think that the guilt contributed. Was that not the whole "Death is your Gift" sequence?
 
To be fair, the Knights and Giles did have the correct answer. they are the "Good Guys"
And human. Buffy learned to kill. Was it for "the greater good"?
As long as the Key lived in human form no one was safe.
Afterward, even Buffy agreed that if the choice were hers again Dawn would and perhaps should have died.
Sentimentality risked everything unreasonably.

I do have to wonder about the monks who made it into human form.
They were charged with protection. Was it simply impossible for them to destroy it?
Is that why human form was chosen and given to the slayer - so that she could do what they could not?
Frankly, their goal in any rational analysis was rather faulty.
They could have made it into anything and buried it. Which tells me that time was not a factor itself.
If it was that would have been a much more effective prevention measure.
Bury it and die taking the knowledge of location to the grave.
Could have been wrung from them using necromantic arts? Possible I guess.
It could have been sent elsewhere for others to bury so that they did not have direct knowledge of the location.
Instead it was sent to the slayer for protection.
Everyone, including Buffy (afterward) agreed that destruction should have been the course of action.
Why exactly did the key need "protection"?
What else did it unlock? Because I only see it unlocking Pandora's box with no benefit at all to that.
There must have been something more, if not then "protection" was a choice of sheer folly.
 
The whole season was tailored around adding a younger sister for Buffy into the series, and as such it worked out pretty well, but obviously the logic of the whole thing was kind of stretched, but no worse than having a mysterious military organization plant some sort of mysterious "chip" in a vampire's brain that makes it impossible for him to kill humans, or descending literally into hell with a force consisting of two Slayers, one vampire, a witch, and a few civilians armed with nothing more lethal than edged weapons and pointy sticks to face an army of super vampires.

When logic and good sense interfered with a good story, Whedon always chose the good story.
 
True.
My speculation regarding Dawn was more along the lines of there is something more there to tell.
Most likely in Season 8.

But it was here that Buffy discarded the notion that only killing evil demons was right.
If it is for "the greater good" humans can and will die - and she will do it.
The absolute lines she held to and called Faith on have been eroded.
Including "want, take, have" - if it is her opinion for a greater goal.
 
Superstar said:
To be fair, the Knights and Giles did have the correct answer. they are the "Good Guys"
And human. Buffy learned to kill. Was it for "the greater good"?
As long as the Key lived in human form no one was safe.
Afterward, even Buffy agreed that if the choice were hers again Dawn would and perhaps should have died.
Sentimentality risked everything unreasonably.

I do have to wonder about the monks who made it into human form.
They were charged with protection. Was it simply impossible for them to destroy it?
Is that why human form was chosen and given to the slayer - so that she could do what they could not?
Frankly, their goal in any rational analysis was rather faulty.
They could have made it into anything and buried it. Which tells me that time was not a factor itself.
If it was that would have been a much more effective prevention measure.
Bury it and die taking the knowledge of location to the grave.
Could have been wrung from them using necromantic arts? Possible I guess.
It could have been sent elsewhere for others to bury so that they did not have direct knowledge of the location.
Instead it was sent to the slayer for protection.
Everyone, including Buffy (afterward) agreed that destruction should have been the course of action.
Why exactly did the key need "protection"?
What else did it unlock? Because I only see it unlocking Pandora's box with no benefit at all to that.
There must have been something more, if not then "protection" was a choice of sheer folly.
Click to expand...

But who would have closed pandoras box. Once it was opened, Glory wouldnt have closed it. Different dimensions would have started opening on our dimension with different hell beings being able to cross-over. Thats why the key need to be protected. So Glory wouldnt be able to go back to her home and make a mess of it and make a mess of our home.
 
But who would have closed pandoras box. Once it was opened, Glory wouldnt have closed it. Different dimensions would have started opening on our dimension with different hell beings being able to cross-over. Thats why the key need to be protected. So Glory wouldnt be able to go back to her home and make a mess of it and make a mess of our home.
Click to expand...
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Best way to prevent that for all time is to destroy the key.
 
I think that Gregor says something about the 'monks wanting to harness it's power for good' (in Spiral, btw, Gregor is the general guy of the Knights who the scoobies capture)
The Kay must have been able to do something else, or have a good effect on the world in some way, not just destory it - or they would have destroyed it from the start....

Hmmmm, or then again, maybe they just needed an excuse for Dawn to come into the Buffyverse.
 
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