Buffy: Premier And Finale

Fair enough. Nothing wrong with rooting for the villains in fiction. Did you want her to slaughter the whole town or just murder Buffy?
 
The Bronze said:
Fair enough. Nothing wrong with rooting for the villains in fiction. Did you want her to slaughter the whole town or just murder Buffy?
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I have always wanted to see evil or bad Faith with Angelus, so keeping Angel alive is my preference. As to killing everyone else, I didn't want her to go on a killing spree as she had the unique relationship with only Buffy...at the time. Now though, well...'let the bodies hit the floor' (pure entertainment value)
 
Riderofapocalyp said:
F*ck the world. You already get no reward for saving mankind everyday and being a provider for a child, so take your rewards. There's no reason why you should feel shame for doing anything that you want to do. Sex with Spike makes life better for you? F-it, ride him until you pass out. Not charging people for being a selfless heroine as Anya mentioned because why? It's wrong because your were chosen by some mystical whatever the f*ck without your consent to do it for free?...F-it, mamma's gotta eat. Start taking on peoples personal supernatural problems and charge them. Hell, in addition to patrols, offer 'protection' to keep certain business and sector's vamp free for some of dat casshhh. Not robbing vamps and demons before killing them? Not basically collecting 'protection money' from them to let them live under whatever peaceful terms you want? Why? Because it's wrong/illegal? F-it, either the dead won't need the money or in the other scenario, your keeping the peace between evil and humanity anyways.
Basically in Season 6 I wanted to be able to tell Buffy 'Listen, F-the-world. You literally died for it already. Just do you bubu.'
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Yeah, it all seems badass and very punk-rock but there's one problem - it'd get Buffy killed. Buffy, as powerful as she is, cannot survive on her own. I mean, count the number of times where Willow, just Willow alone, just one friend, saved Buffy's life in season 6. Off the top of my head - five or maybe six times and that's one season only. Would Scoobies follow the Buffy you describe, would they still believe in her, still be willing to help her? No, they obviously would not. And without them what you get is Buffy from "The Wish" - very badass but with a very short life span.
 
Certainly would have made an interesting finale. Assume Enemies is not a trick, Faith and Angelus slowly and painfully kill Buffy. Then the rest of the season we get them and the Mayor killing everyone else anyway they like. Would have been 15 years ahead of Game of Thrones.
 
EVIL UU said:
Yeah, it all seems badass and very punk-rock but there's one problem - it'd get Buffy killed. Buffy, as powerful as she is, cannot survive on her own. I mean, count the number of times where Willow, just Willow alone, just one friend, saved Buffy's life in season 6. Off the top of my head - five or maybe six times and that's one season only. Would Scoobies follow the Buffy you describe, would they still believe in her, still be willing to help her? No, they obviously would not. And without them what you get is Buffy from "The Wish" - very badass but with a very short life span.
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Of course Buffy can't survive on her own, she doesn't get paid to be A Slayer. Would the Scoobies follow the Buffy I described? Nobody really knows, but I'll say this:
I don't think I described a reckless Buffy who takes on the apocalypse by herself, which nobody would be willing to follow. (Or 'The Wish' Buffy like you mentioned). I believe I described a Buffy who basically fights evil and makes a living (while not interfering in her nightly, cemetery patrols or 'big bad' fighting) to provide for herself and a child she is raising into woman-hood, while trying to find enjoyment/comfort in the life she has. I can understand if the Scoobies would be hesitant to follow Buffy if she and Spike were open about their relationship. But, are the Scoobies really going to not follow Buffy for basically living her life? (Being a Slayer, guardian, earning money and finding comfort in another being that helps/supports the gang as a whole-->Granted I find problems in Spike's character but never mind that for now.). In my opinion no, I think that all of the Scoobies would continue to follow Buffy. They all are no where near pure 'what hat's' and all have their own problems and lives to deal with. I would think that the gang would be happy for Buffy enjoying what she can in her life as a Slayer, especially since coming back from heaven. 
The Bronze said:
Certainly would have made an interesting finale. Assume Enemies is not a trick, Faith and Angelus slowly and painfully kill Buffy. Then the rest of the season we get them and the Mayor killing everyone else anyway they like. Would have been 15 years ahead of Game of Thrones.
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Now you gettin' it!😉
But let's face it, the show would need Buffy to find a way to either not die or have the 'good guy's eventually win. But at least we can say we had that pairing.
 
Riderofapocalyp said:
But, are the Scoobies really going to not follow Buffy for basically living her life?
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Yes. They had proven time and time again that they only accepted Buffy on their terms. They would NEVER let Bufy have a life for fear that she move on. They had no life without Buffy, figuratively and quite possibly literally, so the idea of being being a normal well-balanced woman with a life outside of slaying scared her.

She was the thing which animated them. Which drew them together. Without Buffy, as they knew her, they would have no identity. That is why when Buffy left town and died they continued to fight. Not for altruistic reasons, or not totally, but because it was their identity, their sense of self, and they didnt want to lose that- especially because of Buffy.

Buffy was trapped by her friends just as much as she was trapped by her calling.
 
Mr. Pole said:
That is why when Buffy left town and died they continued to fight. Not for altruistic reasons, or not totally, but because it was their identity, their sense of self, and they didnt want to lose that- especially because of Buffy.
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And it seemed to get old pretty fast for them once it became their job as opposed to a hobby. Saving the world is one thing, but going out patrolling every night, grinding it out against ordinary baddies, that didn't seem to suit them.

Putting aside the real world aspects of it, why not spring Faith if SD needs a slayer? Why did Giles and the Council not have her killed? Greater good and all, which Giles was onboard with. It was never a secret there were two slayers. Yet they were dead-set on resurrection to the point of the nonsensical rationalization she was in hell. It seems like they brought her back hoping she could fix their already-broken dynamic.
 
I felt like Buffy become very bitter and put up a bigger barrier between her and her friends. In the beginning she came out with punchy and witty one liners and I felt she was more caring towards others. She had such a big smile too but in Chosen it was kinda half hearted (Not like she had alot to smile about anyway). She learnt that Slayers have to make tough choices and Slayers have to watch people die and in a way- she saw less value in human life. She was willing to accept that people die and life is one big battle. She changed alot from being so carefree with the Slayer duty kinda one the side to it consuming her.
 
Mr. Pole said:
Yes. They had proven time and time again that they only accepted Buffy on their terms. They would NEVER let Bufy have a life for fear that she move on. They had no life without Buffy, figuratively and quite possibly literally, so the idea of being being a normal well-balanced woman with a life outside of slaying scared her.

She was the thing which animated them. Which drew them together. Without Buffy, as they knew her, they would have no identity. That is why when Buffy left town and died they continued to fight. Not for altruistic reasons, or not totally, but because it was their identity, their sense of self, and they didn't want to lose that- especially because of Buffy.

Buffy was trapped by her friends just as much as she was trapped by her calling.
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Giles opened and ran a magic shop, Anya worked at and ran the magic shop as well as formed what we assumed was going to be a life long relationship with Xander (marriage), Xander was starting his career and the life long relationship thing i mentioned with Anya, Willow and Tara were pursuing a higher standard of education, and Dawn was being a teenager and all that encompasses....how did the Scoobies have no life without Buffy?
How are the Scoobies scared that Buffy would move on? Buffy isn't THE Slayer anymore, she's A Slayer. Buffy is, at least I believe, resuming her normal Slayer role out of her own needs and feelings of responsibility. I'm sure her friends can do some convincing on how she needs to continue being the Slayer, but ultimately i believe that Buffy resumes her Slayer role because of her own mentality. After Buffy was resurrected, she chose to resume being a Slayer.
Yes the idea of being a normal person outside of a Slayer would scare Buffy and understandably so, the woman now has to succeed in the real/everyday world as well as in the supernatural world. However, the idea of thriving as an every day person would scare anyone. Need to work, support the kid(s), pay the bills, worry about the kid(s), support your own hobbies and the kid(s) hobbies while having enough to pay the bills, trying to stash extra money away in case of emergencies or for student tuition or vacation or unexpected costs like mechanic breakdowns, etc. So the idea of Buffy being scared of a normal life makes me at least, go something like, 'Yeah so? Welcome to the rest of the world, that's nothing special.'

In the past i completely see what your talking about in regards to unifying the Scoobies. However looking at the situation in the later seasons such as 5 and 6, which were or at least I am referring to (more so 6), The Scoobies don't need Buffy for any type of identity, or anything else other than being a friend and Slayer. The Scoobies all have their own things going on which would take them on their own path's regardless of Buffy. (Except Dawn of course).

So in a nutshell, I completely disagree with your statement, but that's ok. We all have different opinions.
 
Mr. Pole said:
They had no life without Buffy
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Now, wait a second. Scoobies have lovers, jobs/schools, hobbies, passions - what else do you want?

NothingVentured said:
And it seemed to get old pretty fast for them once it became their job as opposed to a hobby. Saving the world is one thing, but going out patrolling every night, grinding it out against ordinary baddies, that didn't seem to suit them.
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Well, Duh!​

Scoobies are humans. They don't have magical super strength and toughness and reflexes and instincts and every other perk that comes with being the chosen one. They need to sleep like humans. Their injuries don't heal instantly. They do what they can and they even manage to keep Sunnydale relatively safe for months at a time but unlike Buffy, they weren't created to hunt vampires. Yeah, of course it doesn't suit them!

NothingVentured said:
nonsensical rationalization she was in hell
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What happened to the last guy that closed a portal to hell with his blood?
 
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