Buffy Rewatch Part 2

@NotASlayer @NoShip @thetopher @hoponlilmama @Joan the Vampire Slayer
So episodes 11/12/13 and 14, they all just blur
Locations are now just basically Buffys house ๐Ÿ˜ฌ I just want something different to look at !
Its focus is on the Potentials who I don't care about and adding new ones each episode doesn't help. Plus the joke with the Asian potential Chao-Ahn gets old and a bit racist very fast and that was during 2003 as well so its not a time issue thing.
The First Evil shows up and makes a threat. Everyone sells it like it's death then Buffy makes a let's all stand together speech rinse and repeat and they do it every episode.
That's actually the reason Caleb shows up later in the season as the writers realised they need something for Buffy to hit.
And there's some real cringe. Xanders gay me up line is ๐Ÿ™ˆ. The fact Willow is sleeping with a 15 year old which is only not commented on because the actress is older.
Now I don't want to be to negative and there are individual things I like in them like Spike realising Buffy is real at the end of Showtime

Xander speech to Dawn in Potential

Adam Busch peformance as Willow in Killer in Me

Giles brilliant deadpan delivery with his flash cards in First Date and Spike trying to tackle him ๐Ÿ˜„

DB Woodside gives a great peformance as Wood even though its clear they had no idea what to do with his character (why did he bury Jonathans Corpse)

But those are moments.

Any future rewatch I might just Watch 9 and skip straight to 15 which Iv not started yet I should add
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
Buffy's house is easily the most boring main base.
@NotASlayer
Get It Done ....
It has the same stuff as the last bunch of episodes. Potentials (Kennedy calling one a maggot) The First makes a threat/Buffy makes a speech rinse and repeat. The only difference here is Buffy insults a suicide victim for good measure ๐Ÿ˜ 
Did no one in the writers room not bring that up and say hey maybe not a good idea ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
Dawn can speak Sumerian apparently because they realised to late that Anthony Head isnt in the episode
Spike gets his coat back with really cheesy background music. Guys its just a coat whats more its a woman's coat hes wearing, I genuinely don't get why its held in such high regard???

On top of that we have some racist tropes as the black men chain Buffy up and try to put some black demon seed in her yeah. The attempted rape metaphor is a bit on the nose to say the least.
After Buffy shatters the staff they give her a vision and to which she regrets what she did. Wouldn't it have been smart to show her the vision before they bring the demon seed ????

A bad episode which leaves a bad taste in the mouth especially in 2026
 
Season 6 of Buffy is without doubt the worst season of the show and it's not even close. I am baffled anybody could ever say that Adam was a worse foe than the Trio. Everything about them was atrocious. Buffy s6 isn't just bad by Buffy's high standards. It's bad across the board.

It also coincided with Angel season 3 when it began to lose its way and Angel season 4 after was the worst of that show. Dark time for the Buffyverse. Thank god for Angel season 5 that helped the franchise go out with a bang.

Buffy/Angel is kind of like Classic Who and the Showa era Godzilla series. All start out brilliantly, hit their stride, then get a bit light hearted, and people are a bit mixed on that direction, and after that they struggled and end up all over the place for a bad period (to be fair some of it is behind the scenes problems.) In classic who's case this is seasons 23 and 24, in Buffy/Angels its season 6 and 7 of Buffy, season 4 of Angel, in Godzilla's it's the run from Godzilla's revenge to Megalon, all absolute dire periods that in all cases did harm their reputations for years after.

However thankfully all of them pulled it back by the end, with Angel season 5, Doctor Who seasons 25 and 26 and Terror of Mechagodzilla, the last show Godzilla movie all being absolute classics, but by that time their reputations were damaged so much it wasn't enough to save them and not as many people saw those last hurrahs at first, but fortunately in the decades after they did, ensuring their reputations.

Hey it could be worse. As seen with Game of Thrones, New Doctor Who and to a lesser extent Supernatural they never got their last hurrahs and their reputations were severely harmed as a result.
 
Btvs fan said:
Same Time Same Place is also really well done and Gnarll was an excellent Demon literally peeling strips of skin off Willow to eat was creepy. Less is more anqd so we as an audience weren't just seeing a guy in rubber costume.
Also Spike's line about The Slayer and her boy and Xanders outrage over it always makes me chuckle.
If I had 1 issue it was more that Willows issues were about whether her friends still liked her and not what she'd done.

Id forgotten how good these early season 7 episodes are actually. A lot of wasted potential no pun intended ๐Ÿ˜„
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Same Time Same Place is a good episode, I like the way it was shot, showing Willow's perspective and then from the perspective of the Scoobies. The basement exchange with Spike was cleverly done.
"Button button, who's got the button? My money's on the witch. Red's a bad girl!"

Wish we'd gotten a little more of an exchange with Xander/Dawn with Willow apologising. And as you said, it felt a little more about Willow's concerns if anyone would welcome her back rather than what she did.

Dawn's paralysis and Anya posing her always cracks me up. Anya's scenes with Willow I love, "Is it difficult or time consuming?" ๐Ÿ˜‚

One thought that occurred to me last year - I wonder, was this scene/quote foreshadowing for the series finale?
same-time-same-place-foreshadowing-the-end-of-the-series-v0-ti0ccddbm9a51.png

(For those who can't see the image, it's the last scene in the episode and Buffy helps Willow heal. She says, "I've got so much strength, I'm giving it away")
 
@NotASlayer @hoponlilmama @burrunjor
Well Buffy hugely improved with the next 2 episodes StoryTeller and Lies My Parents Told Me
There's also an acknowledgement and mocking of the Buffy speeches in both episodes
StoryTeller while not an Andrew fan is very funny. The scene of the Trio as God's, the Buffy and Spike cereal scene and his commentary on her speeches and him interviewing Xander and Anya are all hilarious
Not just him but Buffy at the school trying to stop another invisible girl and trying and failing to stop a kid exploding "He really should've had that foot rub" ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
Huge improvement on the last bunch
Lies My Parents Told Me
Spike flashbacks to his mother are great. Asking whether he should send for Dr Gull is a great Jack the Ripper reference
And the actress who plays Spikes mum is really good.
Also some of Spike's dialogue ๐Ÿ˜„
To Drusilla "we 3 will lay waste to Europe"
Drusilla "3 ?"
Spike "you me and mother" ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
Plus the scene of Giles/Buffy and Wood discussing his Chip, his soul and his trigger and how convulted it is๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
Also Buffy with that Vampire
"My names Richard"
"Hi Rich"
Then later talking to Giles "Im in the fight of my life"
Richard really pleased "Really" ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
Also Andrew saying he got a phone call from Fred who sounded kind of effeminate and Willow having to leave...
While neither episode is perfect both are a huge improvement on the last bunch
Leaving with Anna's statement
"Spikes got a get out of jail free card that doesn't apply to the rest of us. He could slaughter a bunch of frat boys and..." everyone looks at her "forgiveness makes us human" ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
 
@silvermoon @NoShip @Joan the Vampire Slayer
So Salvage/Release and Orpheus
Salvage - Wesley to Faith in Prison "Angels gone Faith, Angelus is back"
Faith "Step away from the glass" Such a great moment
Release- The fight scene between Angelus and Faith is really great
Angelus "You're a murder and an animal and you enjoy it, just like me"
Faith after beating Angelus up "No Im nothing like you"
Orpheus Willow "So your Angels androgynous son"
Connor "Its Connor"
Willow "And the sneers genetic, who knew" ๐Ÿ˜‚
 
Btvs fan said:
@silvermoon @NoShip @Joan the Vampire Slayer
So Salvage/Release and Orpheus
Salvage - Wesley to Faith in Prison "Angels gone Faith, Angelus is back"
Faith "Step away from the glass" Such a great moment
Release- The fight scene between Angelus and Faith is really great
Angelus "You're a murder and an animal and you enjoy it, just like me"
Faith after beating Angelus up "No Im nothing like you"
Orpheus Willow "So your Angels androgynous son"
Connor "Its Connor"
Willow "And the sneers genetic, who knew" ๐Ÿ˜‚
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Yes, I love seeing Faith break out of that prison, and knowing she could have done so all along, but choose to do the time to atone. I love Faith and Angel's friendship too.
 
Re 7: I think the First needed Elite Henchmen. Like, if this was a magic girl anime, which it is, basically, the Dark Lord would have Four Bodyguards, each of whom had their own gimmick. You sort of had two, in the Turok Han and Caleb, but if you had two more to fill out the middle part of the season, it would have protected the First from overexposure.
 
B
Btvs fan
The problem was the writers didn't realise that at the time. It was only late in the day and because Nathan Fillion needed a job was Caleb added
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
Yes, I love seeing Faith break out of that prison, and knowing she could have done so all along, but choose to do the time to atone. I love Faith and Angel's friendship too.
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The Wesley/Willow conversation is hilarious too. Mr and Mrs Denisof really have great on screen chemistry.

Wesley "Iv been to a darkness I don't think you could possibly understand"
Willow "I flayed a guy alive" ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
Wesley "oh flayed , well I kept a girl in a closet"
Willow "Hey thats pretty dark
Wesley "No it doesn't compare" ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
 
@NoShip @NotASlayer @garfan
@thetopher @Joan the Vampire Slayer
@AlphaFoxtrot
So I rewatched Dirty Girls and its a huge improvement on large portion of the middle of season (basically 10 to 15)
with the introduction of Caleb as an antagonist to fight (the Uber Vamp didn't really work except maybe in Showtime)
and the return of Faith.
I need to double check but I believe Joss did Calebs dialogue for this episode. Which makes sense as its very sharp and witty and he'd want to write for Nathan Filliion.

Faith is always awesome and I love Andrew Vulcan killing scene ๐Ÿ˜„
I also like her scene with Spike (which was meant to set up the spin off which didn't happen) though having him shirtless in that scene was a mistake.
Its interesting that the writers admit that only at the last second the Body swap in Who Are You was remembered of Spike and Faith meeting before.

Some things I don't like. Buffy punching Faith rather than simply explaining the mistake with Spike and everyone's coldness to Faith. Hello you've all tried to kill each other at least once since Faith left and not including Potentials most of the House are murderers but apparently Faith is the one that must be treated badly. She's the only one who did jail time !
Also Xanders fantasy dream of what are meant to be 15 year old girls. Like with Willow dating Kennedy, thank god the actual Actresses are older which saves it.

Also Buffy falling for Calebs trap seems a bit huh. As Giles CORRECTLY pointed out:
Buffy "He says he has something of mine, it could be a Potential"
Giles "It could be a stapler"

Looking back now I think Joss was right to kill off Xander in this episode and they should've gone with that though the eye loss is still horrific regardless.

All in all a good episode
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I love that scene with Faith and Spike in the basement. Talk about sexual tension!
So Empty Places ....
The big question in my mind is why ?
Caleb knocks Buffy out but doesn't finish her off, why ????
The Cops attempt to murder Faith but no one points that out to Buffy when she's berating the punching Faith, why ????
Buffy suddenly decides that no one but Spike has her back again why ???
Buffy decides to go back to Vineyard but without any new reason, why ???
The gang then decides to make Faith leader even though Faith doesn't want to be and the Buffy writers clearly had not seen the Faith episodes on Angel where she was in charge so she doesn't remember, why ???
She by mutual consent leaves her house, why ???

This episode raises a lot of whys which it doesn't really answer
 
@NotASlayer @NoShip @hoponlilmama
So Touched
Buffy kicking somone out of there house and its treated as a joke "got any tab"
Caleb helpfully digs up the Scythe for Buffy and there's a bomb thats planted and time to go off right as Faith is opening the box ....


The Spike speech to Buffy is nice I like that even if the set up for it is wonky. I also love the First as The Mayor. Its a delight to have Harry Groener back

But those bits aside it feels like the writers don't really care at this point. There is no way Buffy would've found the Scythe if not for Caleb and they dont even bother to try and make it make sense

All in all it feels like after a strong episode in Dirty Girls the show is limping to the finish line
 
Re: 15 Year Olds: My understanding was that Faith & Buffy had managed to Bottleneck the Slayer pool so that a lot of the candidates were getting long in the tooth. It was never explained if the "discernment" process was still ongoing for new candidates.

If they were fifteen? Look, at least one potential was dragged from her bed by faceless men, watched her family and boyfriend get killed, her childhood home set ablaze, before escaping from her captors, killing an awful lot of blind people, only to be hunted by a murderous evil pastor while being taunted with the ghosts of her dead parents, only to make it to Sunnydale to be trained as a child soldier and fight lv. 99 vamps, but still to still die in May? I think she had more concerns than the ethics of taking Xander to poundtown.
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
Kennedy, when she turned up, was either 17 or 18, and it would appear that many of them were similar in age.
AlphaFoxtrot said:
Re: 15 Year Olds: My understanding was that Faith & Buffy had managed to Bottleneck the Slayer pool so that a lot of the candidates were getting long in the tooth. It was never explained if the "discernment" process was still ongoing for new candidates.

If they were fifteen? Look, at least one potential was dragged from her bed by faceless men, watched her family and boyfriend get killed, her childhood home set ablaze, before escaping from her captors, killing an awful lot of blind people, only to be hunted by a murderous evil pastor while being taunted with the ghosts of her dead parents, only to make it to Sunnydale to be trained as a child soldier and fight lv. 99 vamps, but still to still die in May? I think she had more concerns than the ethics of taking Xander to poundtown.
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No where is that said and Iv just rewatched it. @NotASlayer same for your comment as well. It says the girls are 15 and no where does it say Kennedy is older
 
Btvs fan said:
Id be interested to know who put that on there. Whoever did Im guessing realised that Willow dating a 15 year old was not a great look
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I seem to recall Kennedy saying she thought she had just about aged out from the chance to be a Slayer. 15 seems incredibly unlikely for her then.
 
Fifteen is a high school Freshman, Kennedy, if 1984 is a College Freshmen. That's older than Buffy, Kendra and Faith when called. It's about the same age as Movie Buffy. With the exception of Amanda, do any of these girls look or get played as younger than Dawn?
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
Amanda is 15-16 I think?
So End of Days
The whole falling out plot of the last 2 episodes is dropped. Its not closed except for a "we got punished" line from Amanda but just dropped like it never happened. Any of the issues Xander and Willow and Giles or Buffy had aboyr them not having her back pretty much dont exist now.

Instead at Buffys request Xander chloforms Dawn and takes her away until she wakes up and zaps him with a magic zapper and goes back !

The Guardian whose been here from the beginning (a white european in North America) apparently up and gives some exposition on the Scythe before she's killed off. On the rewatch it made laugh out loud at how cheesy it was.
Buffy gets into a fight with Caleb before Angel shows up with cheesy music and kissing Buffy with Spike looking on setting up a love triangle for the final episode in the whole series !!

There are better penultimate episodes on the show. Out of Mind Out of Sight/The Prom/New Moon Rising/Weight of the World are all better than this let me put it that way.
Oh well Chosen is next
 
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