Buffy Rewatch Part 2

[Btvs fan]

@NotASlayer @burrunjor
So Chosen and I have a big issues with Buffys tactics in this episode !
First off all why wait to do the Slayer Power up when they are actually in the Hellmouth about to face a hord of Ubervamps rather than before!
2nd why even go down there, why not simply drop Spike with the Amulet (From Wolfram and Hart and another show) down there?? !!
Also Buffy goes from kissing Angel to jumping into bed with Spike. Not a great look !
That all said I do love Giles line while playing Dungeons and Dragons"I used to be a respected Watcher, now Im an injured Dwarf with The powers of a Doily" 😂😂

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2026

OK so Chosen as an episode was ok though with obvious plot holes, but as a series finale well I think they should've stuck to the Gift as that was a better ending for the show imo
My favourite episodes of the season are Selfless/Conversations with Dead People and Dirty Girls though Never Leave Me and Lies My Parents Told Me are pretty good too

 

[Btvs fan]

@NotASlayer I agree with you. If it was just a mid season episode you'd shrug your shoulders and say you didn't hate it but didn't like it either forget about it and move on. But as a season and Series Finale its not good.
To be frank Buffy dying to save the world as shown in The Gift was the best way to end the show. This was not it.
Buffy doing a montage about giving a choice then showing a bunch of girls (the Baseball one looks so young) not given a choice was a thing.
Whats worse is that in episode 15 this was a rape metaphor but now in episode 22 its an empowering metaphor like whut !!!
To be honest Prophecy Girl (they didn't know they were getting a season 2) Becoming and Graduation Day were all better season finales too

 

[thrasherpix]

One question that keeps popping up for me when I see the finale is why wasn't the First and its Bringers not after all the other people who are becoming Slayers that are not with Buffy?

I generally dismiss it as the First being that dumb (as it's shown to be over and over), and also it's season 7 writing, though the Watchers don't know all the potentials (at least not until activated, as I presume was the case with Buffy) so maybe the First can't either.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I liked Chosen as a finale because it established that the "one girl in all the world" description was going to change to many more and in the comics, there were 1800 eligible girls and this meant some of them could finally refuse the job, meaning there was finally some choice for them. People rag on Buffy for empowering all the eligible girls who didn't have a choice, but bringers were looking to kill all of them, so I don't have a problem with that.

But the mechanics of the episode? The changeover to ultimate fighters didn't happen until all the girls were in the cavern and all the girls opened the Seal of Danzalthar with their own blood. Have any of you tried maintaining a grip on something when your hands are full of blood? It is a really good lubricant - if you have cut your palms as they all did, you wouldn't be able to grip a stake at all.

 

[Btvs fan]

@NotASlayer @Joan the Vampire Slayer
So Iv seen Conviction the first episode of Angel Season 5. Great underrated episode by Joss Whedon

The opening scene of Angel rescuing the girl then everyone shows up and makes it a publicity stunt 😄

Corbin Fries the human is a nasty piece of work and Angels rage that he infected his own son is really well done.

Also the Swat Team Uniforms are great and much better looking than the Initiative Uniforms of Buffy S4.

@NoShip you really should watch Angel, I don't know why you don't 🥺

Wesley "Your run on sentences has gotten better"
Fred "Thats sweet and condescending"

Wesley "I don't like calling names that end in Y"
Gunn "Does that mean I have to call you Wesel"

Harmony to Angel "Im extremely sicophantic if it means what that guy said it means" 😂😂

Also the ending of the episode
Wesley shocked "Spike"
Angel enraged "Spike"
Harmony "Blondie Bear" 😂😂

 

[Btvs fan]

So Just Rewards, theres good and bad to this.
James Marsters reaction as he's reformed and expressions as he see's everyone especially Harmony is hilarious.

Some of the dialogue is fun too
Spike "or maybe Captain Forehead was feeling a little less special another Vampire with a soul in the world"

Harmony " you and the Slayer eewww I ewww" 😄


I also think the Necromancer who can literally control the dead is a good idea.
Plus his Butler who Angel kills with a spoon makes me chuckle.

 

[hoponlilmama]

@NotASlayer @burrunjor
So Chosen and I have a big issues with Buffys tactics in this episode !
First off all why wait to do the Slayer Power up when they are actually in the Hellmouth about to face a hord of Ubervamps rather than before!
2nd why even go down there, why not simply drop Spike with the Amulet (From Wolfram and Hart and another show) down there?? !!
Also Buffy goes from kissing Angel to jumping into bed with Spike. Not a great look !
That all said I do love Giles line while playing Dungeons and Dragons"I used to be a respected Watcher, now Im an injured Dwarf with The powers of a Doily" 😂😂

Not to be 'that' person (😉), but I must correct the quote from Giles: "I used to be a highly respected Watcher, and now I'm a wounded dwarf with the mystical strength of a doily" - ASH's delivery of that line always cracks me up!

And this is what happens when you create stupid love triangles. Buffy kisses Angel, but their chat is revealing - she tells Angel she sees no future with Spike but she thinks of one with him. Which is why the 'I love you' to Spike seems and feels forced - but Spike realises she doesn't mean it.

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2026

OK so Chosen as an episode was ok though with obvious plot holes, but as a series finale well I think they should've stuck to the Gift as that was a better ending for the show imo
My favourite episodes of the season are Selfless/Conversations with Dead People and Dirty Girls though Never Leave Me and Lies My Parents Told Me are pretty good too

Of the two series finales, I'm giving the win to AtS. At the time of watching Chosen, I was swept up in the moment and the emotion of the show ending that until much, much later the realisation of consent is a glaring problem.
Buffy moaned for several years about the burden of being a Slayer and not wanting to be one, and yet she's gone and activated hundreds of thousands (millions, even?) of girls and women Slayers. Some as we see are little kids.

The plan of going into the Hellmouth was risky and the episode felt crammed and rushed. It deserved a longer run time. No explanation (Joss apparently on the dvd commentary tells us to ignore it) on why all the vamps are now weak and can be shredded like paper. I dislike how Anya's death felt almost glossed over.

And finally, I've always been bothered by Buffy wearing a constricting jacket and pointy-toed shoes when going into the battle of her life. 😂

 

[Btvs fan]

@hoponlilmama @Joan the Vampire Slayer @BuffyElevated

So Unleashed, it could've but wasn't a great episode.
1) The Actress who played Nina was terrible. The actual character is interesting but the actress, whose sole qualification was dating a writer, can't act to save her life
2) Angel gives a man away to be eaten alive, like WTF @thetopher @NoShip @NotASlayer @garfan
Id love for you to explain this because I can't understand this. Also how did get into the house as he wasn't invited ???
3) Spike is written badly in this and the Elizabeth Craft and Sarah Fain clearly had no idea how to write Spike

Its a shame because this had the potential of being a decent episode but ruined because of the above

 

[NotASlayer]

The eaten alive thing is very reminiscent of Angel leaving Holland Manners and guests to be eaten by Darla and Dru. And perhaps working for W&H is already having a subtle effect.

Mind you, if Angel had turned them down, AI would currently be trying to deal with tens of thousands of Ubervamps spreading out from Sunnydale.

 

[thrasherpix]

It's been a while since I saw the season in its entirety, but I got the impression that it was a deliberate plot (rather than lazy writing) that their working at W&H would make them desensitized and slowly corrupted (at first making deals and compromises that would become worse as time went on). Gunn was reminded of the mission after his choices cost them Fred. Angel was put back on track by Cordelia.

 

[Btvs fan]

@Taake @hoponlilmama @NotASlayer
@BuffyElevated
So skipping ahead to episode 8 Destiny. Spike is now no longer a ghost and back to normal in this. Its also the episode Wesley isn't in because Alexis Denisof was getting married to Alyson Hannigan.
One of the funniest exchanges
Spike "Give me Wesleys office as hes gone"
Angel "He's not gone He's on a leave of absence"
Spike "oh bo ho, he thought he'd killed his father, TRY staking your mother when she's coming on to you!"
Harmony "wow that explains a lot" 🤣🤣🤣

Interesting fact is that Spike having sex with Harmony was not a David Fury idea but a Joss Whedon one. Now David Fury was no Spuffy fan by any stretch of the imagination but even he was against it.
Also they discuss how Angel originally actually won the fight between him and Spike but they changed it at the last minute to Spike winning which angered Steve Deknight who wrote it. Fury admitted he thought it would just be a case of simply changing the ending but Deknight was no its a lot more than that

 

[Btvs fan]

@thetopher @NoShip @NotASlayer @Joan the Vampire Slayer @silvermoon @garfan @hoponlilmama @Taake @BuffyElevated
So Damage on the rewatch , even if you don't watch Angel you should definitely watch this 1 episode as its a direct sequel to Buffy finale Chosen, with psychotic Vampire Slayer Dana.
Watching her literally hack a person's head off with a saw is grim and I don't know how they managed to get that on TV. Plus this episode is basically a criticism of Buffys Chosen spell as she essentially did this to Dana.
I thought it was noticeable Joss never brought Dana back for the S8 comics
Her messed up head thinks that Spike murdered her family and tortured her a child. And it even makes Spike introspective giving him some development "The lass thought I killed her family,So what Im supposed to complain that hers wasn't 1 of the Hundreds of families I did kill"

For me its one of the best Angel episodes and one of the best of either show.

Also that great ending
Spike "she's one of us now she's a monster"
Angel "she's an innocent victim"
Spike "so were we once upon a time"
Angel "once upon a time"

 

[Btvs fan]

@NotASlayer @hoponlilmama @Joan the Vampire Slayer @thrasherpix @NoShip @thetopher
So You're Welcome on the Rewatch
For everyone that doesn't know this was meant to be the episode Buffy would be on. SMG couldn't do it, said for a bereavement and Joss Whedon was genuinely angry over this. David Fury and others confirmed this.
Well because of this they got Charisma Carpenter back as a replacement. Now straight away Im glad this happened. Cordelia was a regular character who deserved closure. To simply have her stuck in a coma forever was a terrible idea. So Im glad it happened and the ending with her and Angel is truly touching "Thank you"
Plus was Buffy gonna do anything aside from some crappy love triangle stuff with Angel and Spike ?
Now I enjoy this episode and the idea of putting Angel back on his path (though its forgotten about by the next episode as is the Wolfram and Hart monster as a fail safe for Angel) but there are some stuff that if Spike biting Cordy as a taste test cliff hanger is ridiculous. Lindsey plan doesnt really make any sense. Why did he dig the Amulet and bring Spike back from Sunnydale. Why send him on missions and call himself Doyle as if Angel wouldn't find out ?
So yeah its a good episode and Cordy as a character got closure but its not perfect though there are some hilarious scenes and dialogue
Spike "Shes evil you gormless tit"
Angel completely appalled "Did you just call me a tit" 😂😂

Cordelia "you've made a deal with a devil"
Angel "you're exaggerating"
Devil "Iv got the paper work signed, racket ball Tuesday ?"
Angel "yeah sure" 😂😂

 

[hoponlilmama]

@NotASlayer @hoponlilmama @Joan the Vampire Slayer @thrasherpix @NoShip @thetopher
So You're Welcome on the Rewatch
For everyone that doesn't know this was meant to be the episode Buffy would be on. SMG couldn't do it, said for a bereavement and Joss Whedon was genuinely angry over this. David Fury and others confirmed this.
Well because of this they got Charisma Carpenter back as a replacement. Now straight away Im glad this happened. Cordelia was a regular character who deserved closure. To simply have her stuck in a coma forever was a terrible idea. So Im glad it happened and the ending with her and Angel is truly touching "Thank you"
Plus was Buffy gonna do anything aside from some crappy love triangle stuff with Angel and Spike ?
Now I enjoy this episode and the idea of putting Angel back on his path (though its forgotten about by the next episode as is the Wolfram and Hart monster as a fail safe for Angel) but there are some stuff that if Spike biting Cordy as a taste test cliff hanger is ridiculous. Lindsey plan doesnt really make any sense. Why did he dig the Amulet and bring Spike back from Sunnydale. Why send him on missions and call himself Doyle as if Angel wouldn't find out ?
So yeah its a good episode and Cordy as a character got closure but its not perfect though there are some hilarious scenes and dialogue
Spike "Shes evil you gormless tit"
Angel completely appalled "Did you just call me a tit" 😂😂

Cordelia "you've made a deal with a devil"
Angel "you're exaggerating"
Devil "Iv got the paper work signed, racket ball Tuesday ?"
Angel "yeah sure" 😂😂

Another great episode, but I was sad to see Cordy go - and I don't just mean her passing away but the fact she wasn't around in s5.

And it was better that SMG didn't appear because as you said, the episode would be reduced to focus on a love triangle.

NotASlayer Sadly an episode that suffered from Too Much Andrew, which resulted in me muting a lot of it.

That was really the only drawback of the episode Damage!

 

[Btvs fan]

Another great episode, but I was sad to see Cordy go - and I don't just mean her passing away but the fact she wasn't around in s5.

And it was better that SMG didn't appear because as you said, the episode would be reduced to focus on a love triangle.



That was really the only drawback of the episode Damage!

So Why We Fight and Smile Time both are actually pretty enjoyable , the Prince of Lies is funny, but the placement of Why We Fight with depressed Angel AFTER Cordy and You're Welcome doesn't really work.
Also in S2 Angel said he'd never turned someone while he had a soul 😐

 

[NotASlayer]

Also in S2 Angel said he'd never turned someone while he had a soul 😐

Continuity is something that happens to other people.

 

[Btvs fan]

Continuity is something that happens to other people.

Steve Deknight was working on Buffy and Goddard hadn't even been hired yet but Joss or somone else should've known imo.

I should say I did enjoy Smile Time though the whole pedo undertone at the beginning with the demon puppet telling the kid to touch it was a bit much 😬

Puppet Angel was funny though.
The Actress who plays Nina still cant act

 

[BuffyElevated]

@NotASlayer @hoponlilmama @Joan the Vampire Slayer @thrasherpix @NoShip @thetopher
So You're Welcome on the Rewatch
For everyone that doesn't know this was meant to be the episode Buffy would be on. SMG couldn't do it, said for a bereavement and Joss Whedon was genuinely angry over this. David Fury and others confirmed this.
Well because of this they got Charisma Carpenter back as a replacement. Now straight away Im glad this happened. Cordelia was a regular character who deserved closure. To simply have her stuck in a coma forever was a terrible idea. So Im glad it happened and the ending with her and Angel is truly touching "Thank you"
Plus was Buffy gonna do anything aside from some crappy love triangle stuff with Angel and Spike ?
Now I enjoy this episode and the idea of putting Angel back on his path (though its forgotten about by the next episode as is the Wolfram and Hart monster as a fail safe for Angel) but there are some stuff that if Spike biting Cordy as a taste test cliff hanger is ridiculous. Lindsey plan doesnt really make any sense. Why did he dig the Amulet and bring Spike back from Sunnydale. Why send him on missions and call himself Doyle as if Angel wouldn't find out ?
So yeah its a good episode and Cordy as a character got closure but its not perfect though there are some hilarious scenes and dialogue
Spike "Shes evil you gormless tit"
Angel completely appalled "Did you just call me a tit" 😂😂

Cordelia "you've made a deal with a devil"
Angel "you're exaggerating"
Devil "Iv got the paper work signed, racket ball Tuesday ?"
Angel "yeah sure" 😂😂

I absolutely love that it was Cordelia and not Buffy in "You're Welcome". For me, it made much more sense for it to be Cordy and not Buffy because at that point in Angel's life, Cordy was the one who could truly get through to him in a way I don't think Buffy could. Of course I HATE how it ends for Cordy, but I think that heaviness makes this episode all the more special.

Post automatically merged: Jul 14, 2026

I should say I did enjoy Smile Time though the whole pedo undertone at the beginning with the demon puppet telling the kid to touch it was a bit much 😬

Absolutely. I still get uncomfortable watching that "TOUCH IT!" scene in the beginning...

 

[Btvs fan]

I absolutely love that it was Cordelia and not Buffy in "You're Welcome". For me, it made much more sense for it to be Cordy and not Buffy because at that point in Angel's life, Cordy was the one who could truly get through to him in a way I don't think Buffy could. Of course I HATE how it ends for Cordy, but I think that heaviness makes this episode all the more special.

Post automatically merged: Jul 14, 2026

Absolutely. I still get uncomfortable watching that "TOUCH IT!" scene in the beginning...

I don't think continuity would've mattered to much. Andrew betrays Angel and threatens to have him killed in Damage. In That Girl In Question its not even mentioned even though Angel should be beating the crap out of him.

My guess is if Buffy had shown up we would've got some love triangle crap but nothing definite with either man because both Angel and Spike are on Angel so neither can leave and because both relationships have huge fan bases, no way would Joss want to alienate either. Essentially it would be more of Chosen

 

[Btvs fan]

A Hole in the World and Shells introduces one of my favourite characters in the Buffy Verse; Illyria , she's awesome.
I prefer Shells as an episode and I always love Angel giving his speech about fighting for humanity and Wesley just straight up murders Knox and Angels "were you even listening" 😂