Buffy/Riley - Ultimatum

A

Amber Benson

Currently Pending
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
874
Location
Lesbigutter
I don't know if this was posted already... I looked, but didn't see anything..

Anyway, I just finished watching Season 5 (again...) and it's been bothering me everytime I come to the point where Riley leaves... Now, I thought it was odd how Xander got on Buffy's case about Riley... I mean, sure they did have their rough points, but he was basically telling Buffy to forgive Riley for what happened... I don't think it was really fair, and in my opinion, I would have never forgave him, let alone try to stop him from leaving...

What is everyone else's opinion?
 
I think the whole thing could have been worked out and Xander's speech to Buffy was a sign of his maturing from the wacky hormonal teenager we were introduced to in the first seasons.
 
Cordelia said:
I think the whole thing could have been worked out and Xander's speech to Buffy was a sign of his maturing from the wacky hormonal teenager we were introduced to in the first seasons.
Click to expand...

Oh I definately agree that it could have been worked out... Eventually... But I think it was wrong of him to make her choose...
 
Something like this was discussed before (don't ask me where) and I will try to restate as much as possible what I said there.

Buffy treated Riley like crap. At every turn, she slighted him. He was the last to find out about Joyce being sick, the last to find out about Dawn (was he actually ever told about Dawn being the Key? I'm blanking on that). Buffy wanted him to be there when she wanted and to go away when she didn't. That kind of treatment would make the most loyal person cheat (which is what going to the vampire brothel was a metaphor for).

Riley was wrong for 'cheating', but Buffy was hardly blameless in the whole situation.
 
I agree that she was hardly blameless... I think they were both to blame for how it ended... But it goes along the lines of "two wrongs doesn't make a right". Buffy was going through a lot, and she should have shared that with Riley... But in all honesty, Buffy's been hurt before, and I wouldn't entirely blame her for closing up when she is going through hard times... I just don't think that Riley should have given her an ultimatum, especially to someone as stubborn as Buffy... If it wasn't for Xander, I don't think she would have tried to stop him at all...
 
I think Buffy needed that ultimatum. It was Riley's way of stepping up and showing Buffy that he wasn't just a fluffy puppy, he was a man and he had needs, needs that weren't being met. Sometimes tough love is the only approach to making someone realize how you're treating them.
 
I always liked Xander's speech... But I was suprised he was telling Buffy to stop Riley from going. He didn't really tell her to forgive him.. I mean, he did, sort of, but not because Riley hadn't done anything wrong but because buffy really did love Riley. Well, Xander kinda convinced Buffy she really loved Riley, and that's what surprised me. Was it only because Buffy was his best friend, or did he really believe that Buffy loved Riley that much..? That she would regret it if she didn't stop him from going, and that the two of them could become a happy couple again..?
 
Amber Benson said:
Oh I definately agree that it could have been worked out... Eventually... But I think it was wrong of him to make her choose...
Click to expand...


It wouldn't have worked. Temperamentally, Buffy and Riley were too alike. He never understood what it really meant for Buffy to be the Slayer. And she never understood why being in the military was so important . . . or comfortable for Riley.

And I suspect the reason Buffy had such difficulty opening up to Riley was because she didn't feel very comfortable exposing her true feelings to him. With Riley, she felt more comfortable in maintaining some kind of illusion.

I think that Xander was trying to project his own feelings . . . or his desires for Buffy to be Riley . . . upon her.
 
C
Cordelia
Good observations.
phoenixrising said:
That kind of treatment would make the most loyal person cheat (which is what going to the vampire brothel was a metaphor for).
Click to expand...

IMO, there is never reason to cheat. The person should have the guts to leave or at least talk to their significant other about their relationship.

Xander was totally out of line. He berated Buffy for not putting in the effort, for giving up, yet he himself does that same thing to Anya. He's a hypocrite.
 
S
Spike My Darlin
Preaching to the choir.
Buffy & Riley were being idiots. Buffy just wanted a love doll she could pull out of the closet whenever she wanted. Riley he wanted to be treated like nothing ever changed about him, he went from super soldier to dud and he want to continue to fight and put Buffy in danger because he was to stubborn to build up strength where he could do something, been better off sniping vamps with wooden bullets.

Neither of them was happy in that relationship and they were too idiotic to figure out why and do something about it. The best thing for them both was for Riley to go back to the armed "demon fighting" forces.
 
I really agree with you... I saw them as going down-hill from the point where Riley started playing all tough guy leaving the rest of the Scoobies out of the loop...

It just bothered me that after EVERYTHING, he could give her that ultimatum... She was right to try and protect him, she knew he'd get in the way... Riley was too stubborn to see that, and in my eyes, made Buffy seperate things... I think he got too dependant on HIM having to be the strong one... That girls always needed to be protected, when Buffy was the one protecting him by her actions... Like she says in the 7th Season to Angel... She's finally realized that she is cookie dough, and not ready to be a cookie 😀... She has things that are more important, and need to be settled before she can worry about settling down with anyone...
 
Even as cookie dough she could find a nice man/vampire man and settle down with, she just needs to find one who can be there for her when she needs/wants it and not be there when she doesn't need/want it.

Spike understood that for the most part S6 & S7 it was very evident that he completely understood that when he wasn't a nut job.
 
I think that Riley was completley unreasonable. Buffy had some huge things going on in her life. She didn't leave Riley out of them on purpouse, she was just preoccupied because she had a lot to deal with. Her mother dies and she has to cope with her own grief and that of her sister. It's understandable that she didn't automaticly think that she needed to tell Riley. He seemed more upset that she didn't tell him straight away than he did that Joyce had died. He seemed to be putting his own feelings before Buffy's at the worst time of her life. He gave Buffy no exeptions for the fact that she had lost her mother and was left to look after Dawn, just treated the realionship issues like normal, as if Buffy was completely in control of her emotions at the time.

Nothing anyone can say can make me have any sympathy for Riley. I think he treated her appalingly and I'm glad it ended becuase she deserved someone better. It's just a shame she never got the man she deserved.
 
White Heather said:
Her mother dies and she has to cope with her own grief and that of her sister. It's understandable that she didn't automaticly think that she needed to tell Riley. He seemed more upset that she didn't tell him straight away than he did that Joyce had died.
Click to expand...

Riley left before Joyce died. He wasn't around for that.

Buffy's mom was sick. When you are in a relationship with someone and say you love them, that means you include them in all aspects of your life. Buffy kept cutting Riley out of all aspects of her life until he was hardly there at all. Riley wasn't blameless, but neither was Buffy.
 
C
Cordelia
[No message]
Yeah, I agree with phoenixrising. It's not that Buffy was wrong not to tell Riley about everything that happened or everything she was going through. But by not telling him she shows him she doesn't want him to know, or need him. It's not that he was angry with Buffy because she didn't tell him everything, but he saw that things were wrong with her and he wanted to help. When she didn't let him know what she felt, he felt left out, of course. He felt she didn't care about him and that she didn't need him. Of course he wanted her to need him. It's a terrible thing to feel that the person you love the most doesn't really need you. (And doesn't automatically think of you when they need help with something...)
 
She was right to try and protect him, she knew he'd get in the way... Riley was too stubborn to see that, and in my eyes, made Buffy seperate things... I think he got too dependant on HIM having to be the strong one...
Click to expand...


I don't think that Buffy was right in trying to protect Riley. With or without Walsh's steroids, Riley was an experienced demon hunter. I remember her asking the Scoobies to protect him, while he went hunting for that vampire in "Fool For Love". What on earth made Buffy think that Riley needed protection from the Scoobies? If she thought that the Scoobies could handle themselves, then she should have extended the same respect to Riley . . . who has had more experience and training in fighting demons.

But in the end, both Buffy and Riley messed up that relationship.
 
Riley's entire experience up until that point was all steroids based he was stronger than a normal human he relied upon that. His experience gave him knowledge like strategies, what kill, etc but that was the extent of it. His entire combat experience was useless unless he was on steroids.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom