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Buffy Season 8? Meh?
- Thread starter scottt140
- Start date
Skytteflickan88
Proud Spikette
well this thread turned out quite different then i thought lol
Yeah, seems like every 20th thread or so I've been reading and discussing in turns into a discussion about sexuality.
Hooowwwler
Townie
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2009
- Messages
- 4
Hey everyone...
Hi I've also been a fan of BtVS since the tv series debuted in 1997. Hell even since it's inception as a movie in 1992 as well, starring Kristy Swanson as Buffy and Donal Sutherland as her watcher Merrick. Although I think I've heard/read that the movie went in another direction and was made out much campier and a bit sillier than intended. However I digress.
I ask everyone this. Hasn't there been (to some degree) foreshadowing and hint dropping along the run of this continuing saga? Sometimes even very subtle ones? Wasn't Dawn eluded to before she showed up? I thought some of the things in the ep "Restless" eluded to Dawn. I thought there were even references of Buffy's imminent sacrificing of herself leading up to her second death capping off S5 (and I had thought the show was actually over at the time! I was in such a state of shock and denial.) Anyways, I'm sure there may be more examples for those and there's a quite a bit more other stuff foreshadowed or hinted at as well. He's/they're smart that way, at it not being obvious at first, but upon multiple viewings/readings how it kinda fits like a puzzle.
Anyway, I bring this up because like most of the other clues for other things that happen/have to happen I didn't pick up on this immediately. In The Long Way Home, during Buffy's coma induced by Amy, doesn't she need to be awakened by a kiss. The "kiss of true love", implying that someone has very deep feelings for her. I immediately thought Xander (although personally, I think part of him may still be deeply in love with her.) Willow then commands all the people in the room to close their eyes and asks the person in love with Buffy to come forward and kiss her. Buffy, feeling something on her lips, suddenly awakens, yelling "Cinnamon Buns", but the source of the kiss is not revealed. Later after Willow is taken captive, Buffy asks Xander to go with her to rescue her but he says that Willow is too important and Buffy needs to do this right by picking the best person for the job. Buffy personally and specifically chooses Satsu, who is initially apprehensive, but Leah reassures her that it's Buffy's decision and warns her not to embarrass the rest of them. I think that some may initially have been a tad jealous. As they wait to go through the portal, Buffy asks Satsu if she could borrow some lip gloss; she notes the flavor is cinnamon, hinting that Satsu might be the one who kissed Buffy. That was in #3 of Season 8.
As for Buffy's stealing being questionable, yeah I thought so too initially. I read it and saw it and thought what the f#%$! By the way, didn't another certain Summers damsel also have a klepto habit for a while? (Hmmm... not sure if she still does.) I suppose that's likely a different case though. However it upon reflecting it isn't too much of a stretch for her, therefor not too hard to imagine. I mean before Faith and often even by F's side B seemed innocent, level headed, just and an overall "goody two-shoes", as an expression some people like to use. However did she not break an entering and steal stuff (weapons) with Faith and she didn't need too much coaxing or arm twisting? Admittedly she was ashamed and felt very guilty about it, but at that moment in time she chose to do the aforementioned.
Secondly, in the S7 ep "Selfless", when Buffy was notified by Willow that Anya was suspected to be falling into her veangance demon ways, did B not try to think of some other way? She tried to talk to Anya first. She asked her to stop and make it right. In the end though she had to engage in fighting her, then drive a sword through her torso (heart I think?), continue fighting her and was intent on killing her, if necessary. Again, she really would have rather not, I mean as annoying as Anya was to most people (especially Giles, and probably most of all to Willow) Buffy didn't relish having to do that. I think she felt very bad about the whole ordeal. As B said to Willow and Xander though, she is the one who has to make those kinds of tough decisions.
BUFFY: It is always different. It's always complicated, and at some point someone has to draw the line and that is always going to be me. You-you get down on me for cutting myself off, but, in the end, the Slayer is always cut off. There's no mystical guide book, no all knowing council. Human rules don't apply. There's only me. I am the law.
XANDER: There has to be another way.
BUFFY: Then please find it.
Thirdly B brings Andrew to the Seal of Danzalthar in S7's ep "Storyteller", to close it. Once they're there, she makes it seem as though she will cut him spilling his blood, possibly even to kill him.
ANDREW :You—you weren't really going to stab me, were you?
BUFFY: I wasn't going to stab you.
ANDREW: What if the tears didn't work? Buffy walks out of the room. Andrew grabs his camcorder and follows her.
She clearly didn't say no, which leaves room for a yes, and if necessary (in my opinion) a real possibility. See that's the thing, if the end(s) (saving the ones she loves, even the world) justify the means (stealing for funding a global scale patrol/task force, security perimiters) than she may ethically and morally see it OK, to do what she did in that vault. I think she would likely rather find alternat ways but... As numerous as those cemeteries in Sunnydale were, this seems much more larger scaled, especially since there are more slayers, but only one Buffy.
In summary this ongoing saga and it's mythos is so vast and layered, as are the characters that inhabit it. There is just so much history and stuff to keep in mind. Admittedly yes, this is often times way more grandiose and fantastical than the previous tv seasons, but as some have stated, it is also not as restrictive in many senses as it's tv counterpart. Who knows if the tv show would have been a bit more like the comic if it hadn't had such a restrictive budget, dependance on cast/crew/network cencorships,demands or insistances.
As I write this, I have only finished BtVS S8 No Future For You. I do though have BtVS S8 Wolves at the Gate and intend to commence reading that soon. So I am not as advanced in the plot/story as many here are. I like Joss and the team and have very much liked what they've done with BtVS and the Buffy/Angel verses thus far. It all really stemmed from Buffy anyways right, and is therefor really all considered part of the Buffyverse?
I am glad that you are visibly and are a genuine fan as well GrimsWatcher, as are all of you. Cheers! :-] I sincerely mean no disrespect whatsoever to anyone. Just thought I'd shine some light on things that may have been forgotten or overlooked. Thank you for your time and allowing me to post. I plan on being somewhat active here. Peace to all (especially all of us Scoobies, or whatever you like to call yourselves, at heart.) For us die hard BtVS/Angel fans universally, later. :grouphug:
Sky, when I brought up out of character moments, I mean Buffy. Buffy has been around since 1992, and she's never shown interest in a girl as far as I can remember. I flipped the page of a comic book and Buffy out of nowhere is sleeping with a woman. No real build up to it or a great explanation either. At least not yet. Buffy's stealing is questionable as well. She's more extreme than I remember.
As far as surreal happenings on the TV show, yes, crazy things occured, but they didn't happen all the time, and with 144 episodes it didn't distract me. So in the show I'd see one strange moment every 5 to 10 episodes. In the comics, there's an absurd moment in nearly every issue so far. And as weird as some of the moments were on the show, they never became so dumb as a Godzilla sized Dawn stomping around Tokyo and battling a equally sized mecha version of herself. To me personally, it's just too much.
I'm still a fan, I want to make that clear, but sometimes the comic just goes out of control and has no limits or boundries.
Hi I've also been a fan of BtVS since the tv series debuted in 1997. Hell even since it's inception as a movie in 1992 as well, starring Kristy Swanson as Buffy and Donal Sutherland as her watcher Merrick. Although I think I've heard/read that the movie went in another direction and was made out much campier and a bit sillier than intended. However I digress.
I ask everyone this. Hasn't there been (to some degree) foreshadowing and hint dropping along the run of this continuing saga? Sometimes even very subtle ones? Wasn't Dawn eluded to before she showed up? I thought some of the things in the ep "Restless" eluded to Dawn. I thought there were even references of Buffy's imminent sacrificing of herself leading up to her second death capping off S5 (and I had thought the show was actually over at the time! I was in such a state of shock and denial.) Anyways, I'm sure there may be more examples for those and there's a quite a bit more other stuff foreshadowed or hinted at as well. He's/they're smart that way, at it not being obvious at first, but upon multiple viewings/readings how it kinda fits like a puzzle.
Anyway, I bring this up because like most of the other clues for other things that happen/have to happen I didn't pick up on this immediately. In The Long Way Home, during Buffy's coma induced by Amy, doesn't she need to be awakened by a kiss. The "kiss of true love", implying that someone has very deep feelings for her. I immediately thought Xander (although personally, I think part of him may still be deeply in love with her.) Willow then commands all the people in the room to close their eyes and asks the person in love with Buffy to come forward and kiss her. Buffy, feeling something on her lips, suddenly awakens, yelling "Cinnamon Buns", but the source of the kiss is not revealed. Later after Willow is taken captive, Buffy asks Xander to go with her to rescue her but he says that Willow is too important and Buffy needs to do this right by picking the best person for the job. Buffy personally and specifically chooses Satsu, who is initially apprehensive, but Leah reassures her that it's Buffy's decision and warns her not to embarrass the rest of them. I think that some may initially have been a tad jealous. As they wait to go through the portal, Buffy asks Satsu if she could borrow some lip gloss; she notes the flavor is cinnamon, hinting that Satsu might be the one who kissed Buffy. That was in #3 of Season 8.
As for Buffy's stealing being questionable, yeah I thought so too initially. I read it and saw it and thought what the f#%$! By the way, didn't another certain Summers damsel also have a klepto habit for a while? (Hmmm... not sure if she still does.) I suppose that's likely a different case though. However it upon reflecting it isn't too much of a stretch for her, therefor not too hard to imagine. I mean before Faith and often even by F's side B seemed innocent, level headed, just and an overall "goody two-shoes", as an expression some people like to use. However did she not break an entering and steal stuff (weapons) with Faith and she didn't need too much coaxing or arm twisting? Admittedly she was ashamed and felt very guilty about it, but at that moment in time she chose to do the aforementioned.
Secondly, in the S7 ep "Selfless", when Buffy was notified by Willow that Anya was suspected to be falling into her veangance demon ways, did B not try to think of some other way? She tried to talk to Anya first. She asked her to stop and make it right. In the end though she had to engage in fighting her, then drive a sword through her torso (heart I think?), continue fighting her and was intent on killing her, if necessary. Again, she really would have rather not, I mean as annoying as Anya was to most people (especially Giles, and probably most of all to Willow) Buffy didn't relish having to do that. I think she felt very bad about the whole ordeal. As B said to Willow and Xander though, she is the one who has to make those kinds of tough decisions.
BUFFY: It is always different. It's always complicated, and at some point someone has to draw the line and that is always going to be me. You-you get down on me for cutting myself off, but, in the end, the Slayer is always cut off. There's no mystical guide book, no all knowing council. Human rules don't apply. There's only me. I am the law.
XANDER: There has to be another way.
BUFFY: Then please find it.
Thirdly B brings Andrew to the Seal of Danzalthar in S7's ep "Storyteller", to close it. Once they're there, she makes it seem as though she will cut him spilling his blood, possibly even to kill him.
ANDREW :You—you weren't really going to stab me, were you?
BUFFY: I wasn't going to stab you.
ANDREW: What if the tears didn't work? Buffy walks out of the room. Andrew grabs his camcorder and follows her.
She clearly didn't say no, which leaves room for a yes, and if necessary (in my opinion) a real possibility. See that's the thing, if the end(s) (saving the ones she loves, even the world) justify the means (stealing for funding a global scale patrol/task force, security perimiters) than she may ethically and morally see it OK, to do what she did in that vault. I think she would likely rather find alternat ways but... As numerous as those cemeteries in Sunnydale were, this seems much more larger scaled, especially since there are more slayers, but only one Buffy.
In summary this ongoing saga and it's mythos is so vast and layered, as are the characters that inhabit it. There is just so much history and stuff to keep in mind. Admittedly yes, this is often times way more grandiose and fantastical than the previous tv seasons, but as some have stated, it is also not as restrictive in many senses as it's tv counterpart. Who knows if the tv show would have been a bit more like the comic if it hadn't had such a restrictive budget, dependance on cast/crew/network cencorships,demands or insistances.
As I write this, I have only finished BtVS S8 No Future For You. I do though have BtVS S8 Wolves at the Gate and intend to commence reading that soon. So I am not as advanced in the plot/story as many here are. I like Joss and the team and have very much liked what they've done with BtVS and the Buffy/Angel verses thus far. It all really stemmed from Buffy anyways right, and is therefor really all considered part of the Buffyverse?
I am glad that you are visibly and are a genuine fan as well GrimsWatcher, as are all of you. Cheers! :-] I sincerely mean no disrespect whatsoever to anyone. Just thought I'd shine some light on things that may have been forgotten or overlooked. Thank you for your time and allowing me to post. I plan on being somewhat active here. Peace to all (especially all of us Scoobies, or whatever you like to call yourselves, at heart.) For us die hard BtVS/Angel fans universally, later. :grouphug:
S
Skytteflickan88
Nice post. And you're right about Dawn, both dream-faith in Graduation Day and dream-tara in Restless.
Willow-Tree
Your Childhood Trauma
^ Very good and in depth analysis, Hooowwwler. I'm exactly where you are in Season 8, having just finished up the tenth issue. And welcome to BB!
Hooowwwler
Townie
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2009
- Messages
- 4
Hooowwwler
Townie
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2009
- Messages
- 4
Oh and I just wanted to specify something about my last quick post. When I wrote good, I meant Season 8 thus far as I've read as being good, along with the series as a whole. I wasn't referring to my posts. Thanks again. Peace and later. 🙂
Skytteflickan88
Proud Spikette
I ask everyone this. Hasn't there been (to some degree) foreshadowing and hint dropping along the run of this continuing saga? Sometimes even very subtle ones? Wasn't Dawn eluded to before she showed up?
Yep, dream-faith in Buffy's dream in Graduation day and dream-tara in Restless hinted that Dawn would come.