lol I was just gonna say, season 10!!!?? 😱 *worried about what the future for these characters hold*
Buffy Season 9 News From ECCC 2011
- Thread starter msfantastico87
- Start date
lol I was just gonna say, season 10!!!?? 😱 *worried about what the future for these characters hold*
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
Well I'm excited!!
From what I've read in interviews and such season nine will be much more carefully controlled than season 8 and that can only be a good thing. And yay about season 10 too - I'm happy for this story to just keep on going 🙂
Also, I see over on Wedonesque it says that Willow will most likely get a mini-series and that Spike will not as he'll be too busy in Buffy's story and won't need one. That makes me very happy 🙂
From what I've read in interviews and such season nine will be much more carefully controlled than season 8 and that can only be a good thing. And yay about season 10 too - I'm happy for this story to just keep on going 🙂
Also, I see over on Wedonesque it says that Willow will most likely get a mini-series and that Spike will not as he'll be too busy in Buffy's story and won't need one. That makes me very happy 🙂
Moscow Watcher
Scooby
@Darla - don't worry, it's okay, I don't mind. 🙂
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A new tidbit: Simon, a mod at Whedonesque, posted:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/26022#407420
On one hand, I'm happy, OTOH, I'm scared for Buffy/Spike. I'm afraid that Joss will make something horrible to them, like he did to Buffy/Angel in season 8.
(It's hard to be a shipper on BtVS... 🙂)))
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A new tidbit: Simon, a mod at Whedonesque, posted:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/26022#407420
On one hand, I'm happy, OTOH, I'm scared for Buffy/Spike. I'm afraid that Joss will make something horrible to them, like he did to Buffy/Angel in season 8.
(It's hard to be a shipper on BtVS... 🙂)))
zobothehobo
Scooby
ok... I'm the kind of person who will pretty much enjoy any story you tell me. So I'm not nervous at all about seasons 9 and 10. I'm SOOOOO excited! I can't wait to see what wacky stuff they come up with next!
Me, too! After the Empty Places nonsense, NOTHING the writers do will enrage me. At least they'll make sure Angel gets redeemed and there will be delicious tension between him and Buffy. If Xander or Giles did something wrong, the writers would never deal with it and Xander and Giles will be painted as assholes for years and years: "Kick his ass" and "Giles' betrayal in S7" are two of the many examples where the "normal" men don't get to redeem themselves or express their opinions and thoughts as the "supernatural" men.
zobothehobo
Scooby
Well I'm kind of of the opinion that he shouldn't get off so easily for this. He killed A LOT of slayers. He basically tortured Buffy with this mysterious big bad they had no idea how to fight... and killed a lot of people. I think he and Faith should go off on their little adventure and end up lovers... but I don't think he should be redeemed or forgiven, even by Faith, for a little while...
That being said, I am of the opinion that a good story doesn't necessarily mean one that gives me what I want. So if that doesn't happen and they do redeem Angel fairly quickly, it won't make me say "oh I've lost faith in Joss." Or "they can't tell a story anymore" because I think that's ridiculous.
Angel will get his own series -same number of issues as Buffy's- so I think he will get a respectful arc where he redeems himself with Faith's help. I don't think Angel's fans need to worry, especially with all the attack Joss and Scott got for ruining Angel's character. They'll make sure Angel gets redeemed.
zobothehobo
Scooby
I STILL don't see how they ruined Angel. I thought he wad kind of ruined to begin with. And no one will explain to me how they ruined his character. I mean they made him Twilight's puppet... so that ruined him? I don't see it. He was W&H's puppet for YEARS. LONG before this. And that didn't ruin him. *sigh*
/end rant
In fairness, Xander was the finest example of a man in S8. He was the best friend, the best boyfriend, and generally the best human being throughout the entire run. I don't think he could have been given a more generous treatment by the writers.
The thing about Xander, redemption and the "Kick his ass" incident is that I don't know if Xander wants to be redeemed for it, or if he even feels he needs to redeem himself. I think he is 100% secure in the choice he made that morning. I definitely think he'd do it again if he was in the same position.
The Giles issue is a whole other mess that hasn't really made sense since S6.
white avenger
white avenger
I have mixed emotions about all of this. Like Miss K and others have said, as long as the series is published, I will continue to buy and read it, assuming that the quality doesn't get a lot worse than it has been so far. As for Joss actually ever ending the series, giving the story a final conclusion, well, he's already done that once. There's no real reason to assume that another finale will actually be THE finale. Joss seems to like new challenges, or maybe just new toys, or both. Putting all of his characters into the comic book form has been one, and he has obviously enjoyed it. Who's to say that he might not someday decide that an animated series featuring these characters might not be just as much fun? If the CGI technology continues to develop, and the resultant cost becomes more manageable, we could see a new "Buffy" series that is completely computer generated. And there could literally be no end in sight, not even the death of the sries creator. As I've said before, Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan, James Bond, Zorro, Superman, and literally dozens of other characters have survived far past the lives of their creators, and I have no problem adding Buffy, Spike, Angel, and all of the others to that list. As ong as there is a market, ANY market, for Joss' characters, they will be with us.
I don't want that. I don't think many Xander fans want that. That's boring. I want a rich arc like Willow's and Spike's. I want Xander to screw up and then deal with the consequences. So far whenever Xander screws up, the writers will shrug and say, "He's Xander. What do you expect? And who takes Xander seriously anyway?" I see no respect for Xander's character.
There was a lot of potential in Xander's character but it's gets ignored: Jesse's death, Xander's home life, Faith's attempted rape, "Kick his ass", Xander's dislike of Angel and Spike, Xander's desire to have Giles as a father-figure, Xander dating an ex-demon, Xander experiencing being a leader to hundreds of Slayers, Xander dealing with Renee's death.... the writers just never explore those issues. They give us hints, but no serious exploration.
Xander becomes a perfect man all of a sudden but we never get the joy of watching him get there. I wanna see how Xander becomes a better man, not just the aftermath. How did Xander become Buffy's bestest friend? How did Xander become a great leader in S8? How did Xander and Dawn get together? Where's their first kiss? Where's the awkwardness? Where's their story? It was mostly from Buffy's POV and was treated as a plot device to give Buffy yet more pain.
They give us Xander upset and angry because his best friend turned into a vampire, but once Jesse is dusted, it's like he's never existed when the writers could have given us Xander mourning and developing conflicted feelings over vampires -which would have made his point of view about Angel more sympathetic.
They give us hints about Xander's home life but not clear enough to make a whole picture: there could have been potential for great drama as well as dealing with child abuse.
They started something big like "Kick his ass" and never followed through. Xander should have gotten caught or confessed to Buffy what he did. A storyline for Xander as well as great drama that should have been dealt with in S3.
Faith attempts to rape/murder Xander and that upsets him for a scene and then nothing. Xander is okay. He must be the strongest member of the Scooby gang emotionally to get over pain and humiliation so fast.
Spike stays at Xander's apartment in S7 and then suddenly Xander is pro-Spike and trusts Buffy with Spike. They could have showed us a couple of meaningful scenes between the two in Xander's apartment. Or else why move Spike to Xander's apartment at all? They should have just moved him to Buffy's basement from the beginning.
Xander loves and respects Giles, but Giles doesn't feel the same way. Xander admits in Restless that he used to consider Giles a father figure but then he moved on. Hello? Couldn't you have made that clearer in the high school years? I'd have loved to see Xander's unrequited feelings for Giles "“parental not slash, though I don't mind Xander/Giles subtext.
Xander/Anya had a great potential to be as complex and interesting as Buffy/Spike, but alas, they were doomed to be comic relief.
Xander, who was always a follower, becomes a leader. He can't become a perfect one in a matter of days. How about showing us Buffy being his teacher and him screwing up a little?
Xander says he'll mourn Renee alone, which was only an excuse so Joss' won't deal with it.
But that's just you assuming. We don't know what goes on in Xander's mind. Don't you agree it would have made more sense if Xander got caught? At least we'd have dealt with this dangling thread and saved years of debating uselessly about it. Plus, Xander getting a storyline for the poor Xander fans.
*Sigh* That rant needed to get out. Thanks, hon *hugs*
The Unspoken
Champion of the underdogs
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2010
- Messages
- 532
Well, both Giles' and Xander's 'betrayals' can be defended from an utilitarian perspective, so I never quite understood the fandom backlash. The Twilight mess with Angel is an entirely different story, I thought it was out-of-character and definitely the nadir of season 8.
To be honest, I'd wish they'd stop bringing the vampires into Buffy's story. It really feels like fan service at this point and tends to bring the story down.
To be honest, I'd wish they'd stop bringing the vampires into Buffy's story. It really feels like fan service at this point and tends to bring the story down.
What I was initially going to say was that I have similar feelings about Angel in terms of how he went from the assured and committed hero he was in ATF to...Twilight? But I admit that I have a greater chance of having Angel's 180 being explained than you do Xander's changes.
So, I concede to you point my dear 😉
I definitely agree it would have made more sense if he got caught, or at the very least that it came out during the big Scooby fight in Dead Man's Party. That certainly makes a lot more sense in terms of dramatic effect and Xander exacting his agency as a player in the gang.
However, even though I am assuming, I am doing so based on what we were shown. If Xander was going to show remorse or seek out some kind of redemption for the "Kick his ass" incident it would have happened during or after Helpless. That was the chance. I have always viewed his lack of acknowledgement or shame about that event as Xander showing how he feels about it.
LMAO. Any time 😉
I understand completely. It really sucks when Joss makes the characters regress without explanation. I mean, Angel had gone a looooooooooooooong way and then it's all gone. And we have yet to know why.
But I have hope, seeing as Angel has his own series where he's the main character and that will give us insight to what goes on inside his head.
It sucks because the writers chose to ignore it. Exactly like Xander summoning Sweet. That's what I meant by dealing with the consequences. I think the writers believe that fans won't care, because Xander, who cares? They have no idea that Xander's fans and non-fans do care.
If we take Xander in these incidents seriously, then he's such an incredible asshole who doesn't deserve to live.
Allie has said in response to fans who complained about Angel being destroyed that " he doesn't think they have ruined him but even though he is in bad shape people should consider why they took him to this place. If they broke him maybe it is to put him back together".
That's all well and good but in breaking Angel they broke his entire reason for being as shown in the 5 seasons of Angel. His entire message was washed out and every lesson he claimed to have learned, forgotten. So that has me questioning, why are the creative team retconning the character they created? It just makes me uneasy about their plans.
The Sweets thing was ridiculous. I totally agree with that. Or in Helpless I think it would have been right for him to come to Buffy at the end of the ep and tell her he realises what she faced with Angel. Even if he isn't sorry for "Kick his ass", he could have told her he was sorry for the pain she felt (and apparently continues to feel about the whole thing). More than that, I think Xander would have done that.
The same could be applied to Willow, where did we see her remorse? Her redemption? As worthless as Warren was killing him, especially the way she did, must have had a deeper affect on her than what we were shown.
I think you've convinced me. I am formally subscribing to your newsletter. 😛
Willow felt remorse, hated herself, thought she deserved to die, and always feared using magic because she knew that she'd slip. She never trusted herself until Chosen. Also, Giles putting her in the Coven was much better than jail, because there she'd learn how to use magic responsibly and then be of use whenever Buffy needed her.
It's not really her fault that her friends loved her so much they didn't want to punish her. She was punishing herself with self-loathing.
I think comparing Xander's situation with Anya would be more accurate. Anya was the one who felt no remorse over killing thousands of men, instead was proud of her work and happily told stories of the men she cursed/tortured/killed. Willow wasn't like that at all. She was much better than Anya. She felt guilt. Anya didn't.