Buffy & Spike = no dust

[Buffanator]

There isn't a specific season to address this issue, so thought I'd address it here. Mods, please feel free to move it if there's a better place for it.

I just wonder why didn't Buffy EVER dust Spike? I mean, in S-2, she let him go & take Dru to get them out of there... I know she was more focused on stopping Angelus & whatnot at the time, but she did stay true to her word & let Spike & Dru go free.

Then in S-3, when he came back, & held Willow & Xander hostage... even after he told Bangel where he'd kept them, Buffy could easily have dusted him then... but she didn't.

Then in S-4, ok, I know Spike got chipped & couldn't really "harm" anyone. But he still did dispicable things to Buffy & her friends... why didn't she just dust him? (And Harmony, for that matter?)

Then we're in S-5... and Spike is all puppy-doe-eyed at Buffy, and even tho he did help out the Scoobies & take care of Dawn from time to time, still... was Buffy just too entangled in her mom's illness & Dawn's key-being ... or did she keep Spike around to help fight Glory?

Ok now it's S-6. Yes, they had their massive fiercely sexual relationship, but Buffy admitted she did not love him (or denied she loved him, as us Spuffy fans believe) ... after the A/R... why didn't she DUST HIM?

Now, in S-7, I KNOW why she didn't dust him. "He has a soul now; he can be a good man" she said.

But for all those other times? .... WHY didn't Buffy dust Spike? Were there possibly some feelings there all along? Or did she just not view him as a real threat? (which I find hard to digest, esp. the Spike of S-2 & S-3... where people were just "happy meals with legs"... :lmao: )
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Edit:
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WOW... now that I think about it... .this post should be under "INSIDE OUT"... could a mod please move this for me?

~buncha thankee!~

 

[Veyron]

This is a very interesting question - one that I have to admit never crossed my feeble mind.

Why didn't she dust him?

I don't think that Buffy had anything other than neutral thoughts about Spike from the start - after all, he's just another vamp. He's nothing to her apart from an annoyance right up until he gets chipped.

Even then it takes a long while for her to realise that he's changed - and once she does I think that's when her feelings changed toward him.

But that still doesn't answer the dusting question.

Maybe, as you say, she's got a whole bunch of things on her head at the time and even though she's had ample opportunity to dust him and Dru she never actually gave it a thought.

Buffy knows she could dust Spike at any given moment - if you remember when she and Riley were sparring she was holding back - even when she told Riley that she wasn't.

The run of the mill vamps in Sunnydale, including Spike aren't a challenge for the Slayer - the only things that test her are the Big Bad's - and Buffy doesn't think that Spike is that big of a bad (in my opinion), a minor annoyance maybe, but not a real big bad. Truth be told, Spike's not the sharpest knife in the drawer now is he? Sorry Spike fan's - I'm a Spike fan myself, but at times we have to totally honest, right?

Spike is a work out for Buffy to keep her skills in check - since she's not sparring with Giles anymore. Her chemistry with Spike would, again in my opinion, naturally lead them to romance; feelings develop between them as there relationship builds - whether she is aware of the feelings building between them or not we're kept in the dark - however, what we do know is that Buffy is in denial - she keeps on telling Spike that she's not interested when clearly the opposite is true - else why would she trust him with Dawn - constantly ask him for help with the Big Bad's (apart from asking him to use his connections in the Underworld), etc. etc.

So, all in all, I reckon that over time Buffy changed her mind about dusting Spike as her feelings towards him changed. After all, apart from when Angelus was tormenting her and the Scoobies Buffy never had any thoughts of dusting Angel once she found out he was a vamp - apart from right after she found out of course.

 

[Buffanator]

The run of the mill vamps in Sunnydale, including Spike aren't a challenge for the Slayer - the only things that test her are the Big Bad's - and Buffy doesn't think that Spike is that big of a bad (in my opinion), a minor annoyance maybe, but not a real big bad. Truth be told, Spike's not the sharpest knife in the drawer now is he? Sorry Spike fan's - I'm a Spike fan myself, but at times we have to totally honest, right?

Yes, I'm a total Spike fanatic, & I admit that "at times" Spike was NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer. But I can't help but think that Buffy MUST have thought of him something other than a "minor annoyance"... because even tho his *best laid plans* never seemed to go quite his way, still, he DID kill TWO slayers in his past... and before he was all "in love" w/Buffy, he was all about getting another slayer under his belt (heh, pun). He would have gladly killed Buffy in S2 or S3... or even S4, if he could have. It just doesn't make any sense at all that she DIDN'T dust him. She sure did threaten to many times, & even had him "ousted" as a guest vamp in her home.

 

[Kemy]

Its possible some higher power was ensuring both the contenders for the ShanShu remained in existence until which one of them it was was decided. Little dust-happy-feeling suppressant.

Other than that, Spike was a popular character, generated ratings so...

 

[Relic]

I think she might have killed him at one point in season 5, if I remember correctly when she did her Buffy Bot act to trick Spike, he answered a certain question right and instead of a stake, got a smooch instead. I think if he would have answered that wrong he would have got dusted. (atleast if I can trust my foggy, foggie memory and the feelings that it gives me.)

When he was first chipped...well I think Buffy held onto some distant Angel left over, hope for redemption, maybe at a sub-concious level. Plus killing Spike when he could not so much as defend himself and posed no immediate danger might have been stepping over her boundaries so to speak.

As for season two and three...good question, all i can say is that she's a women of her word? Plus seeing how Spike is the closest thing to a humanized vampire sans gypsy curse she run into....well perhaps she felt his uniqueness?

I still thought he was toast in season three though, when Buffy catches him taunting Angel with, of all things, her Mother. I was suprised she gave him the opportunity to talk. I don't think she was into him at all then, so much as Angel (again)

Course I did always feel sorta an undercurrent of something-attraction maybe, even in season two. Might be armchair quarterbacking/ generaling thing though; since I know they do get together maybe I've fooled myself into thinking I've always felt something. 😉

I Dunno.

 

[white avenger]

In Season 2, when Spike first made his appearance, I honestly doubt that Buffy COULD have staked him. In "School Hard," she was right on the verge of becoming Spike's third Slayer "happy meal on wheels" when Joyce and her trusty fire axe intervened. And remember this: Spike liked to toy with his kill before striking the final blow, especially his Slayers. There's a very good chance that he was actually holding back whenever they fought.


From then on, every time Spike appeared on the show, he and Buffy either had their fight interrupted before there was a decisive victor, or they did more reluctant co-operating than they did try to kill each other, right up to the point in Season 5 when he became an actual ally. After that, there wasn't any real reason to kill him, again, assuming that she could. With the exception of Glory, Spike is the most powerful fighter Buffy has ever faced. He's the only one who she never even came close to actually beating.

 

[InsaneMystic]

In Season 2, when Spike first made his appearance, I honestly doubt that Buffy COULD have staked him. In "School Hard," she was right on the verge of becoming Spike's third Slayer "happy meal on wheels" when Joyce and her trusty fire axe intervened. And remember this: Spike liked to toy with his kill before striking the final blow, especially his Slayers. There's a very good chance that he was actually holding back whenever they fought.


From then on, every time Spike appeared on the show, he and Buffy either had their fight interrupted before there was a decisive victor, or they did more reluctant co-operating than they did try to kill each other, right up to the point in Season 5 when he became an actual ally. After that, there wasn't any real reason to kill him, again, assuming that she could. With the exception of Glory, Spike is the most powerful fighter Buffy has ever faced. He's the only one who she never even came close to actually beating.

While I agree about their "balance of power" in Season 2, let's not forget by S5 Buffy is unmistakably established to be VASTLY stronger than Spike... I know it's probably a nightmare in regards to strength-ratio continutity, but remember the scenes with Olaf's Hammer? (Spike = no chance of even picking it up. Buffy = easily wielding it as a weapon in a drawn out fight.) In strength alone, I guess Spike would need to team up with two clones of himself to match, let alone overpower, Buffy.

 

[ItMustBeBunnies]

Being big with the Spuffy Love id love to think that she had feelings for him all along and thats why she could never kill him......But alas thats just not true! (In my opinion anyway). I think its just because the writers didn't want spike to go anywhere. Which is fine by me!.

 

[Lou]

Well, I was wondering this the 2nd time around watching and I noticed that Spike seems to always end up with a lovely "exit" plan.
She thought he was dead the one time with the organ and stuff when he ended up in the wheelchair.
But, every other time he does a lovely "flee" stratedgy. When they somehow escape from the locked room, when he grabs Dru and leaves. He's really good at leaving mid-fight while no one is looking. It might be how he lived so long to begin with.
The general not staking him in S3 seemed to be more that he knew where Willow and Xander were and she "needed" him around.
Plus, the general "help" at the end of S2, I would think made her at least a little softer on him since she could see that he wasn't going to attempt to end the world any time soon.

 

[Primal Slayer]

It always made mad that Buffy never attempted to stake Spike after S3. You would think after he tried to kill her in S4 and then manipulate all of her friends at the end of S4 that she would have had enough of him.

 

[T.I.P]

With the exception of Glory, Spike is the most powerful fighter Buffy has ever faced.

Adam, Caleb and the Master were all more powerful than Spike, possibly Luke.
After the first fight in School hard, fair enough Spike won that, but in Halloween, after being easily handled, he ran away from her, and Harsh light of day, after Buffy regained control of the fight, he ran away from her. The way he acted in Becoming and Lovers walk made it out that Spike had already accepted Buffy was a superior fighter.

 

[Schillaci]

No offense, I didn't read every post, I read the first 3 or 4 posts saw a general theme and skimmed through the rest.

I don't agree at all that Buffy could easily stake Spike.

Spike loves to fight, he loves the thrill of it, the romance.

In season 2 Buffy always had help. I have no doubt that had they fought one on one Spike would have killed Buffy. They don't delve into Spikes feelings for Buffy until season 4, but they developed long before that. I think its in Fool for love, in a scene in the past where Dru and Spike are arguing that we see that Spike was starting to be affected by Buffy as early as season 2.

People underestimate Spikes fighting ability because he is sometimes used as comic foil.(don't think foils the right word, but whatever)

As for Buffy not killing Spike, as she said to Dawn in season 7 she "felt for him". For Buffy to have killed Spike at any point after season 2(with the exception of the first few episodes of season 4) would not sit right with her. I think a large part of that had to do with her relationship with Angel.

I know I haven't written anything insightful, it just sounds like my opinion. Its been a long long time since I last watched Buffy or Angel, but I do know there is tons of info to go with what I'm saying(or what I want to say on the subject).



Edit:

Adam, Caleb and the Master were all more powerful than Spike, possibly Luke.
After the first fight in School hard, fair enough Spike won that, but in Halloween, after being easily handled, he ran away from her, and Harsh light of day, after Buffy regained control of the fight, he ran away from her. The way he acted in Becoming and Lovers walk made it out that Spike had already accepted Buffy was a superior fighter.

Buffy could only defeat adam by using a powerful magic spell, Caleb was getting power boosts by the devil, for all we know when Buffy killed him his power could have been waining and we never saw Spike and Caleb properly fight, so I don't know what that proves. The master was a pillock(don't recall him and Spike fighting either) and Luke thought a light bulb was the sun, Spike would have trounced that brainless ponce in seconds.

 

[white avenger]

There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that at the time of "School Hard" Spike was the better fighter of the two. If it had not been for Joyce and her fire axe, Buffy would have been dead. Look at the fight. He took everything she had and threw it back in her face. Spike is the Big Bad for a reason. Certainly, Buffy increased her skill and experience over the next few years, but any time that they fought, she was no better than just as good as Spike, never decisively better. From the middle of Season 4 to the end of the series, there was never another face to face, all out, no holds barred fight between the two, so we will never really know for sure. We do know, however, that he was able to hold his own eventually with Illyria, and that was before her powers were reduced.

 

[Schillaci]

These subjects can easily become like child arguments. "my superhero would beat up your superhero".

If I gave this some thought I'm sure I could come up with some in-depth deconstruction of the big players fighting chances aginst one another.

I would just like to quickly point out a couple of things.

1 : Spike would study his opponents. Find out their strengths and weaknesses. This was shown throughout his whole tenure as a character in the shows. It is how he is able to defeat warriors deemed more powerful than him. This is one of Spike great assets. Buffy eventually mastered it too.

2A: Fighting is much more than just brute strength, or better fighting technique. There are so many different variables, little nuances, thinking patterns, emotions.

2B: One of these is motivation. Motivation is important. ala 'destiny' when Spike soundly defeated Angel(who is[or was] supposed to be the superior fighter of the two)

3: To my knowledge nobody ever killed Spike in combat. Buffy was killed. Angel was killed.

 

[T.I.P]

But, Spike could have been killed quite a few times. He one way or another managed to either escape or get let of the hook. Not being killed isnt really a factor in suggesting(as WA did) that Spike(my fave character) is the 2nd strongest opponent Buffys ever faced.
I do think Spike is stronger than (maybe) Angel and Faith, but i just think Buffys a little bit better at fighting.
She improved each season, Master - Adam - Glory etc, and is THE legendary fighter in the Buffyverse. Theres no shame in Spike being a lesser fighter than her.

 

[Buffanator]

I don't think Spike was a *lesser* fighter than Buffy. Consider Fool for Love... Buffy went to Spike, to ask him how he managed to kill two other slayers before her. Apparently he had *something* that was of great value during a fight between slayer & vampire. And what was the *lesson* cumulation? Spike said "you can kill a hundred [vampires], a thousand, a thousand thousand and the enemies of Hell besides and all we need is for one of us- just one- sooner or later to have the thing we're all hoping for.... ONE.... GOOD... DAY."

Then *this*
SPIKE (laughs) "Hey! You asked and I'm tellin'. The problem with you, Summers, is you've gotten so good, you're starting to think you're immortal."

BUFFY "Not really. I just know I can handle myself."

SPIKE "Oh? Then how do you explain this?"

He reaches out and punches Buffy in her wound. Both Buffy and Spike cry out in pain as Buffy doubles over and Spike's chip lights his brain on fire.

Then - another scene:

BUFFY "Give it to me."

Spike lashes out at her and she easily ducks his blows, then wraps her hand around his throat, pinning him against a chain-link fence. Spike smiles and laughs.

BUFFY "What?"

SPIKE "Lesson the second: ask the right questions. You want to know how I beat 'em? The question isn't "How'd I win?". The question is "Why'd they lose?".

....Then another scene.....

SPIKE "Death is your art. You make it with your hands, day after day. That final gasp. That look of peace. Part of you is desperate to know: What's it like? Where does it lead you? And now you see, that's the secret. Not the punch you didn't throw or the kicks you didn't land. Every Slayer... has a death wish."

"The only reason you've lasted as long as you have is you've got ties to the world... your mum, your brat kid sister, the Scoobies. They all tie you here but you're just putting off the inevitable."

So.... I'm thinking, maybe the reason Buffy lasted longer than the other slayers was because of her family & friends... who definitely DID help her out - after all, isn't that the total undertone of the series? Not just a girl who slays evil things, but one who feels so all alone, but she never really IS alone, no matter how much she thinks she is.

 

[T.I.P]

Yes, good point, BUT, Buffy is still a better fighter than Spike overall, and Buffy was a better slayer than the 2 Spike beat

 

[Buffanator]

Buffy was a better slayer than the 2 Spike beat

I do agree with that... but WHY was she a better slayer than the others? I think it was because of her friends... her *support system*... because Buffy would have been dead without them. (In fact, two times, she was.)

But I still don't think that Buffy was necessarily a better fighter than Spike... or at least, that's NOT why she didn't *dust him*.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Buffy fought with emotion which helped make her stronger. She wasnt just another weapon of the council like past slayers were. If Buffy could take on Faith in an all out fight, she could take on Spike and beat him just like she did in Harsh Day of Light. If Buffys emotions get targeted, she becomes almost an unstoppable force.

Plus she took out a Turok-Han and Caleb (or whatever their name is) and they are both definatly stronger than Spike.

 

[fly on the wall]

Well, I can say that S4 and up, she didn't dust him because of the chip (and eventually the fuzzy feelings she had for him). Buffy wasn't going to kill a "harmless creature" no matter how annoying he was to her. Remember in Lessons (S7) when she's training Dawn, and the vamp gets stuck? She could have let Dawn kill him then. But she pulled him out. Now, I'm sure that's partly because it was part of Dawn's lesson, but that seems to be Buffy's nature. She never killed Clem, she didn't kill any of the poker players, when she goes into Willy's bar she doesn't start randomly slaying. She knows how to use the "dark side" to her advantage, and there was certainly an advantage to keeping Spike alive. He gave information. He helped to fight demons. He babysat Dawn. He grew more and more useful.

But, other than that, the audience and writers loved him, so they weren't about to kill him off. 🙂