Buffy Summers as a gay icon

[wehappyfew]

As I sift through the land of Buffy fandom, I am finding that a lot of people who really seem to "get" and "understand" and "relate" to Buffy seem to be gay men.

Of course, I'm sure there are exception but I just wanted to put it out there (perhaps again) the idea of Buffy as a gay icon, and what makes her so?

I remember being ten and reading an article about Buffy where Joss said "the girls should want to be her and the guys should want to be with her"

Well, I wanted both. I really looked up to Buffy and still do....she wears cute things and dates hot guys and can deal with all her demons. Yet, there's still part of her that feels isolated from everyone else (even herself)....

I think a lot of gay people can relate to that....the stigma from parents in Becoming, Normal Again and Gingerbread...

The "no one understands" attitude throughout all seven seasons....I think gay people can really learn a lot about and see a lot of themselves in Buffy.

So I'd like to open this up...not only to my fellow queers but to anyone...

Is Buffy a gay icon and how is that?

Hmm....I'll continue thinking for the rest of the day.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Hmm, I know alot of Muslims that like her too - could she be a Muslim icon?

Actually, I think that might get me stoned.

My point is that people from ALL walks of life like her and the show, and it seems to me that these days, all you have to do is sing a couple of songs at a Gay club and you're immediately a 'gay icon' (yes, I am talking to you Lily Allen).

I don't buy into all that baloney because an 'icon' should be a personal thing, should be as individual a thing as a personal hero.

eg I have a gay friend that idolizes Margaret Thatcher, would say she is his hero, that he would call her an 'icon' but trust me, she comes from a time that most gays wouldn't call her that, and yet her success in the (straight) mans world could be viewed as something for gays to sympathise with!

You can't just label something to be true for a whole section of society and labelling someone as an 'icon' for gays is doing just that - I know some homosexuals that don't even like Buffy.

 

[caritas08]

Buffy represents a hero who is not taken as seriously as a traditional male hero despite being just as strong or stronger. This is evidenced by the way her enemies and other characters on the show constantly underestimate her and disrespect her (at least at first). Because females, gays and anyone who don't fit into that mold of a "traditional" male often have to struggle to be taken seriously and respected, they can relate to Buffy in a way that they can't relate to Spiderman or Batman or the many other male heroes out there. Many of the female "heroines" are usually unrealistic, unattainable and designed for males to admire rather than for anyone to take seriously as a true hero. Joss once said there is a big difference between a heroine and a female hero (Buffy being designed to be the latter).

I'm not gay so I can't really answer but as a woman I can relate to the characters of Buffy more than of other shows because although they don't really fit in and are often negatively sterotyped and not taken seriously(by many) she still manages to be more intelligent and strong not caring what others think, and I suspect the admiration of the show projected from many gay fans comes from the same place. Straight women will be quick to express admiration for a male hero while straight men don't often project the same admiration for a female hero. I appreciate all men gay or straight who accept Buffy as a believable and admirable hero (and not just because she is nice to look at).

So in short, I have no problem with Buffy being called a gay icon, feminist icon, teenage icon, because to me this just means that people from these groups can identify with her more than most figures in pop culture.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

So in short, I have no problem with Buffy being called a gay icon, feminist icon, teenage icon, because to me this just means that people from these groups can identify with her more than most figures in pop culture.

See, where as I do have a problem with someone being labelled as an icon for a particular subsection of society because to an extent the few that do are telling the rest that this is what they should view.

I was once involved in a conversation with 4 other guys, all gay (except for myself, obviously) when Shirley Bassey came on the radio.

One of the guys said 'Oh my god, I love her' in the overly camp way that he did, followed by two others and myself saying 'yeah, she is awesome'.

Gay number 4 (who I should point out was there because of me, he didn't know the other guys) simply said that he wasn't a fan.

Within seconds of him saying that, the other three turned on him and uttered the line 'how can you not love her, she's a gay icon'.

They used that term.

For the rest of that conversation they almost shunned him because he dared have a different opinion to them because of a label that a small group of people within various subsections of society had placed on her.

Anyway, long story cut short, I felt bad for my friend, so we left after a little while and then had an amazing night back at my flat.

---------- Post added at 04:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 AM ----------

Harm's Way agrees: I totally feel the same way. Like my friend, she's bi-racial and she doesn't care for Obama and people always go WHATT?!?! BUT HES A BLACK EMPOWERER!!!!

Woah I have Harms Way on my side!!!
Maybe I should reconsider my stance!

😛😛😛😛😛

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I agree with what makes Buffy so universally liked is that she can appeal to all people from all walks of life. Gay people, straight people...whatever. I like when people refer to her as a feminist icon, a gay icon, a role model...whatever. It means that her character has made an impact on people, and will always hold a special place in popular culture. That's what I want, anyway.

 

[Friendly Lurker]

I love Buffy but I ain't queer! /me nibbles on Craig and hugs Stevie.

Anyway, I think the original poster was more interested in if Buffy appeals especially to gay people instead of the etymology of "icon".

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I love Buffy but I ain't queer! /me nibbles on Craig and hugs Stevie.

Anyway, I think the original poster was more interested in if Buffy appeals especially to gay people instead of the etymology of "icon".

First of all, if you aren't gay, that is a VERY offensive way of saying it.
I don't know your sexuality but the word 'queer' in this context is akin to the use of the word n****.

Secondly wehappyfew made an observation that as they 'sift through fandom' they see alot of gay men like Buffy.
Well, fair game, but I sift through fandom and see alot of straight men like Buffy, alot of women like Buffy, alot of Germans like Buffy, alot of Japanese like Buffy, alot of Jews like Buffy, alot of Muslims like Buffy and I could go on.

The line " I'm sure there are exception but I just wanted to put it out there (perhaps again) the idea of Buffy as a gay icon" also suggests that pretty much all gays, with some exceptions, likes the show.

Using this wehappyfew then makes the leap to Gay Icon.

So what has happened in that line is make a claim and then lump all together, then linking them to this notion.

Its not about where the word comes from, its about what effect it has on people. You tell a group of people that someone is an 'icon' to them, and then anyone in that group who disagrees is viewed differently, almost as if they aren't one of them.

Words and usage have power and people are stupid. You give a powerful word to one group they use it and even if its a positive word in the beginning it still lends itself to forms of discrimination.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------

Friendly Lurker disagrees: It's from a funny scene in Brokeback Mountain. Well, not the Buffy part. No need to get offended when it's obviously not intended. 😛

There is no 'obvious' about it.
If there was an 'obvious' then there wouldn't be misunderstanding, would there.

Just because you reference a scene from a movie, doesn't mean everyone who reads it will automatically remember that scene, does it?

 

[Professor Walsh]

Friendly Lurker disagrees: It's from a funny scene in Brokeback Mountain. Well, not the Buffy part. No need to get offended when it's obviously not intended. 😛

Funny? In a rather heartbreaking way, if at all.