Buffy the Vampire Slayer sequel series nearing pilot order at Hulu, SMG returning!

[NileQT87]

To boil Angel and Spike both down to just hot vampires that need to be a subverted trope is really disingenuous to their unique, very humanized characters with a lot of depth and personal developments far beyond Buffy or any interspecies romantic relationships. Both these characters are far more than their species. These are characters strong enough that you could make them human and their core personalities, strengths, weaknesses and moral codes would be entirely intact.

Simply recasting them as vapid ciphers to turn them into a crappy anti-Twilight vendetta (talk about dated!) is stupid and destructive of a franchise that never wrote them anything like that.

As per Angel's sense of duty, the situation might be different if the Shanshu included something that would allow him to still help the helpless, IE. make him something closer to Connor. And I suspect that might be something more for a revival series to work with to keep him as a player. But even without powers at all, I think he'd still be trying to help. He's a character who has always excelled with wisdom and vast knowledge, as well. As with Buffy in Helpless, without her powers, she was still driven to duty.

Angel would actually make an excellent Watcher, especially to a very troubled Slayer (which he has experience with far exceeding Buffy's capability). One of the tragedies of season 2 was the fact that Angel had actually become friends with Giles, saved Jenny and they had been doing research together. I would also argue that Wesley was the A.I. member who understood Angel on the deepest level. Angel has a huge connection to the Watchers.

Spike was more than sex appeal, muscle and humor, as well. He often was the character speaking unwelcome truths, as well as yet another frequent source of knowledge.

Buffy definitely needs to be treated better than being in a state of perpetual arrested development simply because it would upset half the fanbase, the other half or everyone.

 

[NoShip]

Actors aren't the characters they play, nor do they have the creative vision behind them (unless they are also directing). They are well paid hired guns that do the job they're signed up to do. And that job is to play what the creators ask them to play. Of course that inevitably means actors' visions will clash creatively with the director, especially in cases where it's the star of a show who's been doing it for many years. Stars develop egos, as well as a sense of ownership or protection for their character. It's not remotely surprising that she might disagree with Joss, but it's not her show. Joss calls the shots.

The way successful shows work is that writers embody the series and actors embody the character. So there is a collaboration between writers and actors.

Whedon was very assinine about the amount of control he wanted. He basically wanted his actors to be automatons. He went so far as to order reshoots when his lines were not spoken directly as written.

Mutant Enemy was rather unkindly known as "The Dictatorship of Joss". This had some really negative effects as the already brutal sbooting schedule was extended every time an exhausted actor said 'don't' instead of 'do not'.

TLDR - there is plenty of blame to go around and most of it quite righteously lands on Whedon (he was the CEO) as well as the actors and the other writers and showrunner Marti Noxon who stuck with a story that the audience really didn't care for.

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2025

Another thing to consider about the new characters, specifically the lead... The Buffyverse, love it or not, tended to center rather strongly on relationships, including of the romantic variety. So much so that it's still the elephant in the room regarding Buffy's future and now present.

While I think it's safe to say that any more ensouled vampires in love with a Slayer is overkill x2, would cheapen the stories already written (Buffy and Angel both had to face not being the only one anymore) and that would be a huge mistake to tread anywhere near again despite it being such a huge iconic element of the franchise, there's still the reality that the Buffyverse has a lot of supernatural relationship drama. And that goes for many of the characters, not just leads.

Rather than vampires where the soul mythology (along with the mythology that the demonic body-snatching parasite isn't really the human, but walks, talks and remembers their life, which renders 99% of vampires stake fodder the Slayer should have no qualms in dispatching) can't really be gotten around like in other franchises (a differentiating factor along with the storylines not being at the same time with rivals on two different shows that makes it the antithesis of Twilight and The Vampire Diaries, or as Joss once called the former, "Choosing a Boyfriend: the Movie"), might we see a demon love interest? Perhaps a half-breed like Doyle, but longer lived?

I still don't see the writers going for an Average Joe as the epic love interest (certainly nobody like Xander or Riley). And while some will be screaming for the main lead to be single forever because she only needs friends and romantic interests are somehow of lesser importance/depth, it's rather against human nature for most and it limits the storytelling that can be mined from it. It's still going to be a coming-of-age story. It's also one of the elements that would set the new Slayer apart from Buffy if her love interest is *not* a vampire, yet still a little supernatural. But at the same time, it's probably a good bet that she's going to have to struggle with straddling the human and demon worlds just like Buffy had to.

Why just one love interest? Buffy could have a series of boyfriends. With her 40-something dating life mirroring the New Slayer's.

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2025

Or recast Angel and Spike with annoying teenage boys whom the new slayers find really hot, but Buffy can't stand. Say something subversive about vampire human relationships, and they don't work.

I REALLY like this idea!!!!!

 

[NoShip]

I suspect the New Slayer or one of her close friends will have the girlfriends.

HOWEVER..... Given Gellar's love of kissing women, who knows?

 

[Bop]

Does the fandom care a lot about Bangel vs Spuffy anymore? I think trying to make either of them human to explain the aging would be complicated to explain in a new show.

 

[NileQT87]

Do we care? LOL. It's basically the main thing that can still wake up this fandom into caring. That and Xander's diminishing reputation, along with Joss' various abuses towards the cast.

I hate to break it to everyone, but the next thought out of most of the fandom after knowing Buffy is in the show is whether Angel or Spike will be, then if the Shanshu will be part of explaining the aging.

The media more or less has the same reaction in regards to trying to find out which other costars will be back (they're already asking if they've been contacted) and there's a hierarchy in regards to which ones are the big names. Entertainment Weekly's anniversary specials should give you a big hint about who the media prioritizes, not to mention various actor preferences, and it wasn't subtle. Love triangles and romantic interests tend to float to the top of the pile, along with actors who have starred on other big shows in the meantime.

It's probably yet another reason why all those previous reboot attempts trying to recast Buffy herself with presumably the rest of these characters (the love interest discourse is never far behind in discussions of whether it is even acceptable nowadays to have... gasp... age gaps in a story about vampires) or starring a new Slayer without Buffy were met with yawns or outright derision from the fanbase. All these attempts were quietly shelved until SMG actually got into the picture.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Re; Angel; Okay, but this isn't Anno Angelus 2025, this is Buffy the middle aged Vampire Slayer. While I agree that Buffy settling down with a human Angel after the apocalypse is the best outcome, I also don’t believe that twenty years of playing switching partners is a great outcome either. This was resolved in Choices, Buffy deserves better than Angel.

Unless they film this as spin off of What We Do In Shadows and portray Buffy as having mentally checked out years ago, then have her sleep with both of them.

 

[NileQT87]

And again, we're back to the point that this only works if one or both is NOT a vampire.

The Mayor's speech in Choices wasn't about Angel being no good because he's Angel, but because he's a vampire with a curse who will outlive her and everyone else he loves, never be able to have children (ha!), never have a perfect moment of happiness (not the same as sex, but Buffy was a problem) without the consequences being potentially apocalyptic and getting a lot of people killed (by a demon that isn't actually him), never go out into the sun, etc... None of that is actually about Angel being the problem outside of his choice to be selfish or selfless (the latter choice being something he did time and time again), but his species. It was also pointedly stated that whatever brought him back from hell didn't do so for him to ruin Buffy's life, same as with the magic snow hinting that there was a much bigger destiny awaiting him (the Powers that Be and/or Jasmine, to be specific).

It's telling that they turned Elena and Bella into vampires to get around the curse of immortality and not turn the stories into total tragedies. The difference here is because of a very key difference in the shows' mythology where that would be absolutely horrific and neither Angel or Buffy would ever agree to it. Spike wouldn't either.

Angel is the Prophecy's Bitch of the Buffyverse, though Buffy herself is another character who can relate to a lot of nasty cosmic destinies that weren't by choice. If there's any theme I'd love to see continue into this third show, it would the one that explores free will in a world where a lot of characters are denied choice (both of our leads thus far fit the Chosen One trope) in often quite tragic destinies and the Higher Powers are not necessarily benevolent, but make the most of it or fight back against those doing the manipulating.

Buffy deserves more than a vampire relationship, agreed. That's moot if he's not a vampire. And it actually concludes both journeys full circle in a way that does deeply matter in-universe. It solves Buffy's arrested development where she couldn't make any of her relationships work, either because of what they were (not who they were) or because she didn't really love them and was trying to prove she could connect to something more normal (which she's not either).

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Here's a thought, a different idea for the new series, now that Willow is a lesbian why not have Buffy get together with a werewolf, an intelligent werewolf.. By making a few changes to the lore that the guy at Universal Films wrote for werewolves Buffy could date a werewolf. Thereby creating another base for the guiding storyline.
The chances of getting Oz back is very doubtful so another character could be written into the story.

 

[famicommander]

Here's a thought, a different idea for the new series, now that Willow is a lesbian why not have Buffy get together with a werewolf, an intelligent werewolf.. By making a few changes to the lore that the guy at Universal Films wrote for werewolves Buffy could date a werewolf. Thereby creating another base for the guiding storyline.
The chances of getting Oz back is very doubtful so another character could be written into the story.

Why would the chances of getting Oz back be doubtful? Seth Green expressed vocal interest in being part of the Slayers audio drama so we know he's up for reprising the role and he's always been close friends with Sarah. She has 18 credited appearances on Seth's show Robot Chicken and countless more uncredited voice cameos.

If they want Oz, Sarah can make it happen with one phone call.

 

[NileQT87]

Seth Green is one of the absolute easiest cameos that comes with zero baggage or consequences. He can fit in any MotW just as an old friend popping over for a visit. He was generally background even when he was a special guest.

 

[nightshade]

I can't see DB doing even a cameo of Angel, he's always said he doesn't look back on projects, and replaying Angel would be a definite look back. Even if they deaged him to appear as he was. The most I can see them doing is using an old clip as a flashback.

 

[NileQT87]

Old news. He's already talking about a Bones revival now that SEAL Team is over.

He's at the point where looking back isn't going to actually harm his career, especially given he's starting to age out of male leads outside of his most nostalgic works. LOL. He'll probably still manage to land another procedural.

Just a few years ago, SMG was also completely against playing Buffy again.

The actors who don't live off of convention money were the ones trying to distance themselves or weren't jumping at every opportunity to reprise it.

Though I think he'd have to be persuaded by the role and story, much like SMG was despite her earlier reticence. I seriously doubt his inclusion would all be done with CGI de-aging either. It would have to be done in an age-appropriate way, probably the same as what would appeal to SMG for Buffy coming back. James Marsters is on record saying much the same thing about his age being a factor in his reticence for a reprisal.

 

[Btvs fan]

Old news. He's already talking about a Bones revival now that SEAL Team is over.

He's at the point where looking back isn't going to actually harm his career, especially given he's starting to age out of male leads outside of his most nostalgic works.

Just a few years ago, SMG was also completely against playing Buffy again.

The actors who don't live off of convention money were the ones trying to distance themselves or weren't jumping at every opportunity to reprise it.

Though I think he'd have to be persuaded by the role and story, much like SMG was despite her earlier reticence. I seriously doubt his inclusion would all be done with CGI de-aging either. It would have to be done in an age-appropriate way, probably the same as what would appeal to SMG for Buffy coming back. James Marsters is on record saying much the same thing about his age being a factor in his reticence for a reprisal.

Lol if the paycheck is decent enough he won't care, he will be there. He made a living doing the Convention Circuit, he wouldn't say no.

Again people are talking about cameos and member berries.
Sarah is only a reoccurring character and is the Watcher/exposition role primarily.
Honestly the big issue will be how its just 1 Slayer again ? . What happened to all the others called.
Are they still alive ? If so why has Buffy abandoned them. She did the same in the comics and it was bad there too but a TV series will need a concrete reason than her working at Starbucks.
If they are not alive, why weren't more called and again what happened ?

The creator who did this was apparently overwhelmed doing the Eternals because of to many characters. So I hope she's learnt from that

 

[Taake]

Lol if the paycheck is decent enough he won't care, he will be there. He made a living doing the Convention Circuit, he wouldn't say no.

Isn’t he, along with SMG, one of the most reluctant ones to get on the ”convention circuit”? He hardly made his living off it, like say Charisma or Emma Caufield etc. He’s had other shows to support him, don’t think he needed conventions.

 

[NotASlayer]

Isn’t he, along with SMG, one of the most reluctant ones to get on the ”convention circuit”? He hardly made his living off it, like say Charisma or Emma Caufield etc. He’s had other shows to support him, don’t think he needed conventions.

DB looked to have been the least interested in the convention circuit, probably because he had the most successful post-Buffy/Angel career. SMG seemed to have been reluctant, not so much because of her post-Buffy career being good but because she didn't want to have anything to do with the show and Joss. Though not her costars, as she remained friends with many of them from what I can tell.

 

[Btvs fan]

Isn’t he, along with SMG, one of the most reluctant ones to get on the ”convention circuit”? He hardly made his living off it, like say Charisma or Emma Caufield etc. He’s had other shows to support him, don’t think he needed conventions.

What no, he was one of the biggest

 

[nightshade]

DB looked to have been the least interested in the convention circuit, probably because he had the most successful post-Buffy/Angel career. SMG seemed to have been reluctant, not so much because of her post-Buffy career being good but because she didn't want to have anything to do with the show and Joss. Though not her costars, as she remained friends with many of them from what I can tell.

DB has done a few in more recent years, but certainly not at the level of Charisma, James Marsters or Julie Benz. I don't know if SMG has done any.

 

[Taake]

What no, he was one of the biggest

Nah, that’s crazy talk.

Between Angel, Bones and Seal Team he certainly didn’t need them to ”make a living”.

 

[Last Watcher]

It's started already......
In just about every article I've seen about this, the comments section has degenerated into a mass argument over which Vampire 'must' come back to be with Buffy!
I've even seen some suggesting that they don't really need Buffy at all....as long as Spike is the main character!

Please, please writers. Ignore the rabid Spufflings & Bangelites. NO returning Vampires!

Note: If I was one of the writers I would be tempted to add a digitally de-aged Spike to turn up right at the start of the first Episode only to be dusted by the new Slayer before he can say a word 😈

 

[Cohen]

Please, please writers. Ignore the rabid Spufflings & Bangelites. NO returning Vampires!

Ignore socials all together. Write a 5 or 6 season bible. Stick to it.

Note: If I was one of the writers I would be tempted to add a digitally de-aged Spike to turn up right at the start of the first Episode only to be dusted by the new Slayer before he can say a word 😈

lol that would be one way to start it. Buffy could say “thank you, I’ve been trying to do that for almost 30 years”