Buffy vs Angel as a Leader

[Black Eye Guy]

I don't think I've seen this topic discussed before, but who do you think is the better leader of a team?

Their both flawed leaders, both have their strong points and both have their weak points. But one argument I've seen allot, is people criticizing Angels leadership skills because he makes decisions without letting the gang decide, that he makes allot of the decisions based on what he thinks is right.

But when it comes to Buffy the majority of people seem to think it was awful of the gang to question her in Season 7, how they didn't just follow her command without raising any questions. The argument I've seen is Buffy had been the leader all along so they should have just done as she said, but not one person was willing to go to the vineyard, (with the exception of Spike, who shouldn't really count as he wasn't doing it for the right reasons).

I think the gang were right in Season 7, and I've always said had I been in the situation there's no way I would have gone with Buffy.

So why is it wrong for Angel to make decisions but not for Buffy?

 

[StarSlayer]

First, I don't think the Scoobies were wrong in questioning Buffy, but I do think they were wrong in their little mutiny. So, I don't think it wrong when Angel's decisions are questioned as well. I think the main difference between the Scoobies in "Empty Places" and Angel's gang is that, at the end of the day, Angel's gang still followed him because they supported his mission and what he wanted to accomplish. Why the Scoobies didn't feel the same about Buffy in that scene (especially after everything she did for them) I'll never understand, which always makes me side with my girl Buffy. 🙂

Second, I know that Angel's intentions are good when he makes decisions, so I guess I don't often see his decisions as wrong. However, I think the hallmark of good leader is someone who shares these intentions with the group because if you exclude the group, it's almost like saying they don't matter and you can get the job done on your own. The group isn't needed. That's just my personal opinion though. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't really fault Angel for keeping things from his group, especially if his intentions are in the right place. 🙂 But I think Buffy is the better leader. 🙂

EDIT: I should add I'm not taking into consideration S8, when it comes to Angel.

 

[brinkster130]

So why is it wrong for Angel to make decisions but not for Buffy?
Good question. Double standard I guess.

Who do you think is the better leader of a team?
Thats a tough one. I love both Angel and Buffy and they both have strengths and weaknesses when it comes to leading a group. In my opinion as far as leaders go, I think they are about equal. But it I had to pick one I think I have to go with Buffy.

First, I don't think the Scoobies were wrong in questioning Buffy, but I do think they were wrong in their little mutiny. So, I don't think it wrong when Angel's decisions are questioned as well. I think the main difference between the Scoobies in "Empty Places" and Angel's gang is that, at the end of the day, Angel's gang still followed him because they supported his mission and what he wanted to accomplish. Why the Scoobies didn't feel the same about Buffy in that scene (especially after everything she did for them) I'll never understand, which always makes me side with my girl Buffy. 🙂

I completely agree! I hated the way things happened in season 7, I completely understand questing Buffy but I will never understand Willow, Giles, Dawn and Xander turning on her like that. I don't think they should have blindly followed her, but they could have questioned her and talked to her more with out kicking her out and taking over. How often had Buffy lead them down the wrong path before?

 

[Litheran]

Angel would serve the cause better as general.

The person in charge needs to see the big picture; which is what he's all about.

Buffy would be better suited as on the ground commander.

The person in the field needs to care about the troops; which I believe Buffy does more so than Angel. Guess I see her behavior in S7 as a defense mechanism.

Obviously I don't think Buffy should defer to Angel; what I mean to say is Angel is better at handling the logistics of war, while Buffy is better at waging it.

Personally I think they both pale in comparison leadership wise to Wesley circa Ats S3 onward. The whole kidnapping snafu being his only black mark on an otherwise stellar record...as long as we don't include his time on Buffy.

 

[The Unspoken]

Their both flawed leaders, both have their strong points and both have their weak points. But one argument I've seen allot, is people criticizing Angels leadership skills because he makes decisions without letting the gang decide, that he makes allot of the decisions based on what he thinks is right.

But when it comes to Buffy the majority of people seem to think it was awful of the gang to question her in Season 7, how they didn't just follow her command without raising any questions. The argument I've seen is Buffy had been the leader all along so they should have just done as she said, but not one person was willing to go to the vineyard, (with the exception of Spike, who shouldn't really count as he wasn't doing it for the right reasons).

I think the gang were right in Season 7, and I've always said had I been in the situation there's no way I would have gone with Buffy.

So why is it wrong for Angel to make decisions but not for Buffy?

That was one incident, whereas Angel makes decisions for them time and again. Also, without his friends, Angel has the tendency to uhm...lock a room full of lawyers in with two ferocious vampires. These aren't so much judgments as they are observations.

 

[Gotham]

It's a tough question. I actually agreed with the scoobies little mutiny against Buffy in S7, and I'm slightly disappointed that it led to mass casualties and Faith being undermined as a leader herself. I felt like Joss was banging me over the head forcing me to believe that Buffy was the one true leader.

Up until Season 5 of Buffy, I would have said that Buffy was the better leader.

That being said, Angel time and again has rubbed his friends up the wrong way by calling all the shots without consulting them. But I think when Angel is truly on form as a leader, he is a true Champion and a true leader of men (and women 😉).

So it's a real tough one, I don't think you could truly say one is better than the other, sorry for sitting on the fence!

 

[Sommers Summers]

I'll attempt to answer these questions to the best of my ability.

So why is it wrong for Angel to make decisions but not for Buffy?
I don't see it this way.

Who do you think is the better leader of a team?
Depends on your definition.

Angel would serve the cause better as general.
Buffy would be better suited as on the ground commander.

Personally I think they both pale in comparison leadership wise to Wesley circa Ats S3 onward. The whole kidnapping snafu being his only black mark on an otherwise stellar record...as long as we don't include his time on Buffy.

I would think that Angel would have been more of a commander-in-chief, presidental, POTUS style. He's very hands-off.

Xander would be more suited as general/chief of staff of army. Along with Wesley. Both are tactically competent and are somewhere in between Angel and Buffy.

Buffy is more of a lead-from-the-front kind. Ground commander seems to fit.

 

[Doppelgang]

I think Buffy is the better leader of a team, but she does sometimes get caught up in a gung-ho attitude, and so doesn't make necessarily the best decisions. In when she was bad this worked against her, falling into the trap, and leaving giles, willow and xander unprotected at the library. However, in Checkpoints, it worked for her, not playing any of the councils games, and it worked for her in season 4 taking the fight to the initiative. Also, she did realise, eventually, in season 5 that the gung-ho attitude wouldn't work against Glory. In season 6 buffy's gung-ho attitude was almost a suicidal urge, due to her difficulties with being brought back, then in season 7 she seemed to have more of a wise head. So, overal, Buffy a better leader, but Angel a slightly better decision-maker, although I think the Buffy of season 5 and season 7 was equal to Angel as a decision-maker. 🙂