Buffy vs Hamilton

[Buff4ever]

Yeah but give her the power to come on top .....YEAH caleb made buffy angry but did you see her when she did the swoop kick when he knoced ouT ANGEL.
She is way way stronger then both of them so yeah i think buffy would win.i didnt say that she would kill him in her bare hands but i think she got more power then angel because buffy uses the envirment and her speed to make the opponent confusion whats she did to caleb.Yeah you should realise every time buffy use her emotion she always come top and always win.

Did you read anything I wrote? Buffy did that swoop kick in her battle against Caleb when she had the Scythe, a weapon. You didn't say she would kill Hamilton with her bare hands, but you said she would kill Hamilton with or WITHOUT a weapon, which is, in theory, the same. I get where you're going; Buffy's an extraordinary fighter, I agree, as does everyone. But she is NOT indestructible. Emotions are helpul, but they don't guarantee success. Buffy didn't come out on top when Caleb pissed her off in "Empty Places" did she? And don't dance around the question.

"She is way way stronger then both of them '

You realize you've just lost all credibility, right?

 

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

a slayer can kill a vampire without a weapon... sunlight. i mean, its not a weapon, per say. just sayin'. *slinks out*

 

[ukkid09]

Yeah but after that did you see what she did caleb with her speed come on thats actions.Yeah but i didnt see a weapon when she did the swoop kick so i still think she on top and emotion are helpful indeed but dont argue the fact that buffy is soo much better then angel and if i remerber in fools for love when spike quotes 'Lesson the first: a Slayer must always reach for her weapon and then spikes says I've already got mine. And Angel had his weapon to kill hamlington soo why not buffy??But still i think buffy without a weapon probably have a go and then kill him with the slayer weapon.so yeah probaly buffy have her slayer axe but if hamlington soo powerful what people make him out to be why not block the axe attack and their have a massive fight.Anyway he should realise taht angel was going to suck his blood.and buffy is alot stronger then angel and i thought angel wasnt even trying???

 

[ukkid09]

I am saying buffy probaly is more macthed then angel on her own with a weapon or none do you know what i am trying to say because she used a weapon to kill vamps any way where is sunshine at night time ???????? so i agree with you porbaly she use her weapon but angel uses his so whats wrong with Buffy uses her weapon.You know if she didnt have a weapon probably she last more longer then angel you know what i mean ?????

 

[Flannen]

I kind of see what you're getting at...BUT as Spike says, which you quoted yourself, Buffy has to reach for a weapon, unless it is daytime then sunlight is an advantage, Spike...and Angel, already have theirs.

I don't think anyone is saying that there's anything wrong with Buffy using a weapon, its more about the fact that generally, especially against the Big Bads, she NEEDS a weapon in order to win. Angel doesn't, to a certain extent.

You're a big SMG fan, so you're biased 😛 LOL 🙂

 

[ukkid09]

Yeah but angel had a weapon in becoming part 2 and buffy killed him so angel does need a weapon to kill the big bads aka Buffy

thanks for understanding me and yes i am a smg fan do u like my sig lol ^^^^^^^^^ i spelt her name wrong lol its not my fault i am thick lol 🙂

 

[Buff4ever]

Yeah but after that did you see what she did caleb with her speed come on thats actions.Yeah but i didnt see a weapon when she did the swoop kick so i still think she on top and emotion are helpful indeed but dont argue the fact that buffy is soo much better then angel and if i remerber in fools for love when spike quotes 'Lesson the first: a Slayer must always reach for her weapon and then spikes says I've already got mine. And Angel had his weapon to kill hamlington soo why not buffy??But still i think buffy without a weapon probably have a go and then kill him with the slayer weapon.so yeah probaly buffy have her slayer axe but if hamlington soo powerful what people make him out to be why not block the axe attack and their have a massive fight.Anyway he should realise taht angel was going to suck his blood.and buffy is alot stronger then angel and i thought angel wasnt even trying???

"but dont argue the fact that buffy is soo much better then angel and if i remerber in fools for love when spike quotes 'Lesson the first: a Slayer must always reach for her weapon and then spikes says I've already got mine. And Angel had his weapon to kill hamlington soo why not buffy??"

When did I say Buffy wasn't better than Angel? Are you adding words [into my mouth], or misinterpreting? What "you're saying" is hard to follow because you keep changing/introducing different points, all of which are poorly stated. Nonetheless, there is nothing wrong with Buffy using a weapon. Weapons are generally HOW you kill the bad guy. She'd be really foolish if she didn't.

Buffy's third encounter with Caleb also justifies my issue. When she went to retrieve the scythe from him, she stayed on the DEFENSIVE; That's when she ran and remained out of Caleb's reach, avoiding any combat. If he got his hands on her, the fight would've been very short-lived. And her method of confronting him shows that she acknowledged that. Something else was needed - a powerful weapon. I'll also note that this was right after Spike psychologically resurrected her. So she was emotionally in her prime. 😀

"buffy without a weapon probably have a go and then kill him with the slayer weapon"

Well, isn't that what I've been saying for the past two days? Thank you for reiterating my point.

 

[ukkid09]

I didnt say you think Buffy better then Angel i am saying that Buffy is better then Angel of the facts of the both shows.Yeah probably the fight would short lived but she used her defensive and if Caleb didnt cath her what you think of Hamlington getting her,Thats what i am saying she is way better then angel so i think that bufy have a better chance of wining then angel did ,Yeah probably she used a weapon to kill hamlington but i am saying without a weapon she probably lasted longer then angel you are not listening to me???
You should acknowlegde that buffy with a weapon or not she would last longer then ANGEL IN A FIGHT.SHE POWERFUL THEN ANY VAMPIRE BECAUSE IT IS SHOWN in the gift olfs hammer spike coundlnt left it but you see how buffy lefted it so easily and her speed is probably better then angel and spike combined and she used the envirment as her weapon also if she doesnt have a weapon she used the envirment to fight back.




i am saying she would use a weapon but if she didnt she would do alot better what angel did to hamlington,ARE WE GETTING SOMEWHERE NOW!!

 

[Flannen]

Well, you've still kind of used the same points that you've used before...

I think you're overestimating Buffy a bit here. Angel and Spike are extremely strong and they have both owned her at various points of the series. Who knows what would have happened if Angelus hadn't returned to being Angel at the end of Becoming Pt 2. - Maybe it would have turned out different. Lets face it, it was kind of like taking candy from a baby when she stabbed him!
Slayers are strong, very strong, generally stronger than vampires. But again, this is not necessarily the case. Two slayers were weaker than Spike so an argument based on 'Buffy is way stronger than Angel and Spike' and 'She('s) (more) powerful than any vampire' isn't that convincing!

No one is doubting Buffy's strength and just because someone says that she might be beaten by someone, doesn't mean they hate Buffy or think she's the got the same amount of strength as a little finger. Some people just don't think Buffy is the be all and end all 🙂

 

[ukkid09]

Only i can remerber Spike owning Buffy was the first time their meet and after that Buffy kicked his BUTT all over the place aka what my line part 2,smashed and she did kick his butt blasting him all over the place,Even Spike quotes that he carnt kill this slayer !!!,And for Angel owning Buffy he wishes.When did Angel own Buffy the only time Angel owned Buffy was when Buffy was ill and that wasnt fair.Buffy brayed Angel in innoceanse and passions and becomeing part 2 and if Willow didnt do the curse Buffy would end up chopping his head because Buffy was going to blow a strick threw Angels head and then the curse happened.Yes spike did kill two slayer but he admitted to adam and even harmony.And buffy said to spike in fools for love 'it never be you spike' remerber???


Buffy is stronger then any vampire because she is alway fighting people way stronger then her and she always ends up top ???

 

[Flannen]

Ok, not only am I sensing an SMG obsession which is making you biased, I am also sensing a hatred for Angel which is making you equally biased 😛 therefore you are refusing to accept my point of view.

One of the last things I am going to add is that I think your argument isn't going down well because of things like 'Buffy is stronger than any vampire' which kinda sounds...naive?! I dunno. There's a thread around somewhere about Buffy as the slayer and whether she only got as far as she did because she had friends and a social/familial network. I'll see if I can find it...

 

[ukkid09]

^^^ Did Buffy have her friends when she found the scythe No!!!!! and innoceanse and passions ??? I know sometimes her friends help her , But she is still strong and even angel admited that buffy stronger then him 😀

 

[Flannen]

I'm not getting into this because there is already a thread about it - even though I can't find it! And I find it difficult to discuss something with someone who is SO biased!

P.S If anyone can remember this thread, help me out. Please?!

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

Buffy would have lost most her battles if it wasn't for luck or the stupidity of her opponents. Im thinking Luke, Master, Spike, Dracula, Glory, Mayor, Caleb..... To name a few. Shes a great fighter but not the strongest ever. She would beat hamilton but only coz he would mess it up.

 

[ukkid09]

Yeah but Buffy brayed them not just for luck becasue Buffy was a better fighter then her opponents.How that luck ?????? Luke only died becasue buffy confused him fool luke he is thick and buffy used the envirment to confuse luke and stabb him.for the master she grew in power after she died that not luck thas anger emotion and revenge and for Dracula she stab him twice becasue buffy jumps high.Glory she used emition again to fight glory and spike coundlnt even left the bloody hammer and you see how easily buffy did.cableb she used everything on him speed and strength and the envirment and she still come on top its not luck it becasue buffy is a better fighter then them.

 

[Buff4ever]

I didnt say you think Buffy better then Angel i am saying that Buffy is better then Angel of the facts of the both shows.Yeah probably the fight would short lived but she used her defensive and if Caleb didnt cath her what you think of Hamlington getting her,Thats what i am saying she is way better then angel so i think that bufy have a better chance of wining then angel did ,Yeah probably she used a weapon to kill hamlington but i am saying without a weapon she probably lasted longer then angel you are not listening to me???
You should acknowlegde that buffy with a weapon or not she would last longer then ANGEL IN A FIGHT.SHE POWERFUL THEN ANY VAMPIRE BECAUSE IT IS SHOWN in the gift olfs hammer spike coundlnt left it but you see how buffy lefted it so easily and her speed is probably better then angel and spike combined and she used the envirment as her weapon also if she doesnt have a weapon she used the envirment to fight back.




i am saying she would use a weapon but if she didnt she would do alot better what angel did to hamlington,ARE WE GETTING SOMEWHERE NOW!!

"but i am saying without a weapon she probably lasted longer then angel "

That totally makes no sense. Hamilton was superior to Caleb; The guy was virtually a living-block of steel. So if a weapon-less Buffy couldn't faze Caleb, what makes you think she would last anymore than five minutes with Hamilton? I'm puzzled. The whole purpose of me examplifying Caleb was to show you how Buffy would lose face-to-face with Hamilton. Angel - though Buffy is my favorite fighter - would've lasted longer for one valid reason: FANGS. Or for the lack of a better word, weapon(s). Buffy, in your scenario, is weaponless. That'll leave her with fists and wits which won't bring her far. And you can't really introduce the environment, though that's her style, because the environment IS a weapon. Did you not see "Potential"? Besides, I didn't see the environment stopping her from getting a good beating in those numerous fights with Caleb and the Turok-Han. Remember, the "Scythe matters".

"Yeah probably the fight would short lived but she used her defensive and if Caleb didnt cath her what you think of Hamlington getting her,Thats what i am saying she is way better then angel so"

This is so vague and incomprehensible, I'm not even gonna refute it.

"buffy with a weapon or not she would last longer then ANGEL IN A FIGHT.SHE POWERFUL THEN ANY VAMPIRE BECAUSE IT IS SHOWN in the gift olfs hammer spike coundlnt left it but you see how buffy lefted it so easily and her speed is probably better then angel and spike combined"

I'm not sure if Buffy is more powerful than ANY vampire; The Turok-Han mopped the floor with her, and did it easily. If Buffy being stronger than Angel is your justification as to why she would have a better chance at winning against Hamilton, then you are contradicting yourself. Glory, Adam, The Master and almost all of the big bads were stronger than Buffy. Yet she was able to put a number on all of them. Strength isn't everything. I'm guessing you've never heard of "David & Goliath".

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

@ryon. Buffy wasn't a better fighter than Luke, she was Lucky he was thick. The Master should have killed Buffy before she got a rematch. Joyce shows up to save her from Spike. Glory and Caleb could/should have killed Buffy way before she killed them but, well its her show, can't be killing the hero!! Gwen could beat her too probably, all she'd have to do is touch her. Illyria could beat Buffy too

 

[ukkid09]

Yeah buffy did use the envirment the buliding site and chopped his head with bob wire, And with caleb she did use the envirment the walls to run up and across and blasting him into things yes it is weapon but she didnt handle it she knew what to do with her suroundings in a fight.Caleb is alot stronger then hamlington you see how easily he knocked out buffy and angel and buffy easily defeated him and by the way about the hero dieing she did die the master and she came back even more powerful and anger and killed the master so yeah she is a good fighter and the bloody best.But she wouldnt do fist to fist she probably use whats she got.Angel figured it out and angel is beneth her.


and billyidolwannab for the fact you are argueing the fact she killed them She knew what to do in the fight with luke she confused him and thats how good she is she knows what to do.yeah but you are argueing the fact the fact that buffy brayed them in couple epsiode i understand if it is everytime their fight but it is not.


And with the illyria thing she got the weapon to kill pure demons and that might be illyria.And illyria got brayed by hamlington and angel killed him yeah sucking hamlinton blood but buffy got the slayer weapon to make him sliced and diced.🙂

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

Thing is though, the examples i have above, fair enough Buffy has better fighting intelligence than them, so she usually ends up winning, but its not totally her intelligence rather its her opponents sheer arrogance or stupidity. If Master or Glory had a brain Buffy would Easily have been dead long before she had a chance to kill them.

 

[Flannen]

Yeah buffy did use the envirment the buliding site and chopped his head with bob wire, And with caleb she did use the envirment the walls to run up and across and blasting him into things yes it is weapon but she didnt handle it she knew what to do with her suroundings in a fight.Caleb is alot stronger then hamlington you see how easily he knocked out buffy and angel and buffy easily defeated him and by the way about the hero dieing she did die the master and she came back even more powerful and anger and killed the master so yeah she is a good fighter and the bloody best.But she wouldnt do fist to fist she probably use whats she got.Angel figured it out and angel is beneth her.


and billyidolwannab for the fact you are argueing the fact she killed them She knew what to do in the fight with luke she confused him and thats how good she is she knows what to do.yeah but you are argueing the fact the fact that buffy brayed them in couple epsiode i understand if it is everytime their fight but it is not.


And with the illyria thing she got the weapon to kill pure demons and that might be illyria.And illyria got brayed by hamlington and angel killed him yeah sucking hamlinton blood but buffy got the slayer weapon to make him sliced and diced.🙂

Ok, the argument that the hero does die: the two times that she has, Joss knew he was going to bring her back. She died against the Master because it was the end of the series and it was like 'oh' and then she got revived - same for The Gift.

And regarding Luke - Buffy had NO idea what she was doing in Season One especially the two part opener. That's what those episodes were about. She didn't want to be a slayer and she didn't know what to do. She knew there was no way she could have fought Luke physically and that was why she had to do what she did. Thinking on your feet because you know you will get beaten to pulp if you try to do it physically, does not in my opinion, make you a good fighter. It makes you a good thinker.

Personally, I think the whole way that Buffy works is that she initially gets beaten up, very badly the first time she comes up against an enemy (Luke, The Master, Adam, Glory, Turok-Han and Caleb) and then it takes the help from everyone else; magic etc in order for her to defeat them. If she was the BEST fighter, as opposed to a good one, she wouldn't need anyone else. But that is what the show is about; she has lived longer than most slayers because she is not alone.