Buffy vs River Tam

[bespangeled]

Does anyone think Buffy has a chance?

 

[thetopher]

More than just a chance, River Tam has a glass jaw. Buffy wins.

The first is even for a while, River maybe getting more hits in (if this is pre-S5 Buffy) and making a good showing for herself for a normal girl. Then, one Buffy-punch later and River's out cold and bleeding.
We've never seen her take a decent hit and still keep standing.

 

[bespangeled]

In Serenity she took down an entire room full of Reavers, and stayed conscious. I vote River - no wit, no puns, but better training.

 

[thetopher]

Well, I always thought of River as programmed, not trained, which leads to a certain inflexibility in a fight. We know that Buffy has been well-trained and can adapt to her opponent but can River do the same?

Also Reavers are still humans- just utterly insane. Which means they have human limit levels of strength, speed, endurance, reflexes, etc, They used weapons and didn't even seem to able to hit River. We never saw River deal with a telling blow, all that blood at the end was reaver blood.

Buffy takes on human+, vampires, slayers, demons and such. Wew've never seen a human opponent give Buffy a good fight (unless she's handicapped in some way) except for maybe Riley, who was enhanced. And even that she kicked him across the room.

All that being said I presume that they both ladies would be unarmed during a fight. If they both had weapons then I'd probably give the edge to River, unless of course they were both armed with stakes. 😉

 

[Taake]

I actually think that Buffy wouldn't stand a chance.

River fights like a well-oiled machine. She.Does.Not.Stop. She doesn't pause to think of a plan, or (as we saw when Mal and Jayne tried to stop her) stop to care who she's fighting.

Buffy says herself that her emotions give her power when she fights, they do, but they also make her weak. In anger after breaking up with Riley she easily took down what like five vamps? But when it comes to someone she doesn't really want to slay (say someone human like River) she will hedge and try to neutralize them rather than outright kill them. That makes her a good person, but it also makes her less of a threat than someone who won't let anything or anyone stand in their way.

Weapons or no, I think River would win hands down.

 

[nightshade]

I would say River, she's got the fighting skills, and she's also got the psychic thing going on, she would be able to predict what Buffy was planning

 

[EVIL UU]

Is that even a question? River is a little human with strength, resistance and whatnot of a little human. Buffy is a demon that looks like a little human with strength, resistance and whatnot of a big ass demon. Buffy has enough strength to kill a human with one hit. Buffy's tough enough to shrug off damage that would kill a human with one hit. You can punch a hole through Buffy's chest and chances are, she won't even notice and still kill you. On the top of that, Buffy's vastly more experienced because she fights every night. Also, Buffy's hotter and has a sex life. Like, River doesn't even have enough strength to hurt Buffy and all that Buffy needs is one hit. Buffy wins, no contest.

lel, I'm such a nerd :^)

 

[Mr Trick]

Is that even a question? River is a little human with strength, resistance and whatnot of a little human. Buffy is a demon that looks like a little human with strength, resistance and whatnot of a big ass demon. Buffy has enough strength to kill a human with one hit. Buffy's tough enough to shrug off damage that would kill a human with one hit. You can punch a hole through Buffy's chest and chances are, she won't even notice and still kill you. On the top of that, Buffy's vastly more experienced because she fights every night. Also, Buffy's hotter and has a sex life. Like, River doesn't even have enough strength to hurt Buffy and all that Buffy needs is one hit. Buffy wins, no contest.

lel, I'm such a nerd :^)

So what you're saying is that Buffy beats all? Yeah I'm down with that😀

 

[Taake]

Buffy has enough strength to kill a human with one hit.

But she wouldn't.
Unless she had a darn good reason to, she would hold back when fighting a human.

 

[thetopher]

But she wouldn't.
Unless she had a darn good reason to, she would hold back when fighting a human.

If we're using that arguement then there's no reason to say that River wouldn't hold back during a fight either. Even when her programming is triggered she doesn't actually kill any of those guys in the bar. She only kills when he brother's life is at stake- when she slaughters those reavers.

Otherwise I don't see any reason that River wouldn't hold back when fighting a 'good' person- so in that case those considerations cancel each other out.
Buffy wins because Buffy has actual superpowers.
I doubt that River has the staying power to go all out against Buffy without getting seriously fatigued by the end of any brawl, or that she has the hitting power to hurt Buffy that much.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Yeah, Buffy would hold back, River would hold back.. they both would sit down and play a nice game of parcheesi.

River would not stand a chance against Buffy. Simple as that. Buffy would try to "neutralize" River? Fine, but that doesnt mean she would hold back, as if she holds back she gets beaten, and I think we all agree she would not let herself get beaten. Buffy gives what the other can take. Did she hold back against Faith? Is River more or less resilient than Faith? More or less strong than Faith?

 

[bespangeled]

For those who have not seen River fight

 

[Skanky Vamp]

For those who have not seen River fight

You got any videos tucked in yourtube of River fighting a god? No? Oh, right. That was Buffy! Plus.. River kicked alot of ass in Firefly, didnt she?

And, just in case you were wondering about the Dark Horse poll from the a few years ago:

River may beat up everybody, but Buffy beats everybody.. and therein lies the difference.

 

[thetopher]

Bottom line: Buffy has beaten up a God. River has only ever beaten up people. Lots of people but still, she kicks Buffy and Buffy is just going to shrug it off and then body slam her into unconsciousness.

 

[bespangeled]

You got any videos tucked in yourtube of River fighting a god? No? Oh, right. That was Buffy! Plus.. River kicked alot of ass in Firefly, didnt she?

And, just in case you were wondering about the Dark Horse poll from the a few years ago:

River may beat up everybody, but Buffy beats everybody.. and therein lies the difference.

Well, there were those three guys that River killed in about 3 seconds with her eyes closed. Besides, Buffy had help against the god, and she did die. River killed a room full of reavers without getting a wound, but when all those vampires in the basement of confessions attacked Buffy they were able to subdue her. As you said, we never saw River take a punch - she seems to have an ability to slow down her perception of time. And she's psychic so she knows what her opponent will do before they do it.

As for the survey - River almost one and she doesn't even have a Dark Horse connection. 

Bottom line: Buffy has beaten up a God. River has only ever beaten up people. Lots of people but still, she kicks Buffy and Buffy is just going to shrug it off and then body slam her into unconsciousness.

Yes, this is where mind reading comes in - she'll be able to react before Buffy gets ready to punch. In both of those larger fights, no one laid a hand on her.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

she doesn't even have a Dark Horse connection.

She's got the Dark Horse comics. Also, unlike Buffy, River simply cannot fight on command. She has to be triggered. Whose to say she would even be able to fight?

edit:
Who possess super-strength, super-speed, super-agility, super-endurance, super-reflexes, and super-healing abilities? Who possess telepathy, super-intelligence, and hand-to-hand combat skills?

Which would you rather have in a fight?

 

[bespangeled]

She's got the Dark Horse comics. Also, unlike Buffy, River simply cannot fight on command. She has to be triggered. Whose to say she would even be able to fight?

edit:
Who possess super-strength, super-speed, super-agility, super-endurance, super-reflexes, and super-healing abilities? Who possess telepathy, super-intelligence, and hand-to-hand combat skills?

Which would you rather have in a fight?

She wasn't triggered when she went out to kill the reavers. I think overall telepathy would be useful - and River was trained as a govt assassin. She does have the speed, agility, endurance and reflexes. The ability to heal is not all that germane - that is post fight. Buffy is stronger - but I think that stronger matters when you have no idea what your opponent is going to do.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

She does have the speed, agility, endurance and reflexes. .

But not superhuman

Buffy is stronger - but I think that stronger matters when you have no idea what your opponent is going to do.

You might think that.. River might think that. Right up until the point Buffy hints her, then she would realize that strength matters- period. There was a reason why Xander wasnt running around beating up on stuff. 
However unspangeled, since Buffy is grounded on Earth (I dont count the comic BS) and River is in space this ultimately could come down to a cavegirl and astronaut. If River can use her space-type stuff then she might be able to hold her own.

 

[bespangeled]

River's fights are both on the ground - and Buffy wouldn't be able to lay a hand on her! I really like the back of the head kick in the bar scene, pretty damn agile.

 

[white avenger]

Buffy is unquestionably stronger than River, but the fight doesn't always go to the strongest fighter, especially if her opponent has been trained, or more likely in River's case, programmed to deal with a stronger opponent. The closest thing that we've ever seen to Buffy going up against a highly trained martial artist is the one time she was tested by the Watcher, and he never looked all that proficient to me. Buffy might get overconfident again the way that she did with that vampire in School hard. River might be able to use a technique that would catch Buffy completely off guard, with no mama with a fire axe there to save her this time. It could definitely happen.

I'm not saying that Buffy couldn't beat River (or, rather, Sarah's stunt double couldn't beat up Summer's stunt double if the fight scene was choreographed that way) but it wouldn't be all that cut and dried a thing, and it wouldn't be quick, but it would definitely be bloody. Both girls would almost certainly be pretty badly hurt before it was finished.