Buffy wanting to kill Anya

[Chosen Enemy]

It always seemed weird to me, Buffy's attitude towards Anya, when she wants to kill her. Yes, Anya got back to her demon self, was responsible for many frat boys' death. And I'm not sure if she's right about wanting to killing Anya or not... But what bothers me is the fact that she's so determined, even though Anya was her friend (pretty much), she was her bridesmaid, they fought side by side against evil. And Buffy doesn't even consider other options. She just wants to kill her, she seems to look at it all of a sudden as black and white. Simply the "Humans good, demons bad" that she was always against. Of all people, she knows best that evil is not black and white. She was willing to forgive Angel, Spike, Willow... Yet, she doesn't wanna listen for a sec, and simply heads out to take Anya out.

Where did this come from? I'm a bit puzzled.

 

[EvilWillow]

I think it goes back to the fact that she changed after she was resurrected. Just like she was willing to kill Dawn if it meant saving the world, it was the same for Anya.

Or maybe she thought was getting what she deserved because she chose to become a demon again.

 

[EvilBuffy]

Over the course of the series there are quite a few times when characters act OOC (at least to me) to seemingly just move the plot ahead. I always took it as Buffy being a plot progression tool in this episode especially when comparing what happened with Spike and the trigger a few episodes later. I was never able to think of a better or more reasonable explanation for this. My only other thought was maybe this was meant to show Buffy becoming a bit colder as she prepared to step into the 'general' role or whatever, but I felt it was too early in the season and just too out of the blue for it to make much sense. Not much of an answer but this episode has always irked me so I figured I'd post anyways.

 

[white avenger]

She was willing to forgive Angel, Spike, Willow... Yet, she doesn't wanna listen for a sec, and simply heads out to take Anya out.

Where did this come from? I'm a bit puzzled.

I always just figured that Buffy was still hacked off at Anya for fraking Spike on the internet. Buffy doesn't like to share her toys.

But, seriously, when you get down to it, Buffy, or, more accurately, Joss, is all about double standards, just as long as they serve a useful purpose. Joss goes wherever a particular story line will take him, and to hell with what was accepted as THE truth yesterday. This is today, and it's a whole new story. He's already said that if a good enough Buffy story presented itself, he would have no qualms about totally disregarding canon in telling it.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I always just figured that Buffy was still hacked off at Anya for fraking Spike on the internet. Buffy doesn't like to share her toys.

Completely agree! I always thought that too, that was actually my theory. And I think that had a lot to do with that.

 

[EvilBuffy]

I always just figured that Buffy was still hacked off at Anya for fraking Spike on the internet. Buffy doesn't like to share her toys.

I didn't even think of that haha. 😀

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I agree that it's very alarming how quick Buffy is to go for the kill. But I don't think it's actually double standard-y of her. Here's what I mean:

We know that for Buffy to justify killing a vampire or demon, it must be 1) powerful, not incapacitated in any way, and 2)currently killing. (Added bonus if said creature is about to destroy the world and needs to be sacrificed in its place). These are the standards she's upheld very consistently throughout the series.

In season 4 when Anya returns to the lives of the scoobies, she's just recently killed all of them in a Wishverse. To Buffy, she's nothing more than a demon that, on an ordinary day, would need to be killed. But Buffy would never consider killing her at this point, because she is powerless. Human, for all intents and purposes. So she accepts her, (by basically ignoring her), into her circle, humoring Xander.

By season 7, they have a bit of a history, yes. But Anya has just qualified to be killed, by Buffy's standards, on points 1 and 2. So, having to make the difficult, calculated decisions as she does, she chooses to kill her. From a logical standpoint it makes a lot of sense.

It's not a double standard, because Buffy applied the exact same criteria to the vampires in her life. Angel is pretty straightforward, and Spike? As soon as he was powerless, humanlike, and not killing, Buffy couldn't kill him. Didn't qualify either point. In season 4 when she thinks for a moment that he's removed his chip, she does come after him--(also taking the leap that he will kill, which perhaps isn't fair but also isn't a logical stretch). Then, back to the state of things as they were. In 7, Spike is under the influence of the First. It isn't simply her feelings for him that keep her from making a rash decision on his part. His actions are very clearly different from Anya, who chose to become a demon again, (as a direct parallel to Spike choosing to get his soul at the very same time), and she began killing again.

So Buffy deserves credit here for her consistency, even if the calmness with which she goes about it is quite alarming.

 

[ticonderouga]

I agree that it's very alarming how quick Buffy is to go for the kill. But I don't think it's actually double standard-y of her. Here's what I mean:

We know that for Buffy to justify killing a vampire or demon, it must be 1) powerful, not incapacitated in any way, and 2)currently killing. (Added bonus if said creature is about to destroy the world and needs to be sacrificed in its place). These are the standards she's upheld very consistently throughout the series.

In season 4 when Anya returns to the lives of the scoobies, she's just recently killed all of them in a Wishverse. To Buffy, she's nothing more than a demon that, on an ordinary day, would need to be killed. But Buffy would never consider killing her at this point, because she is powerless. Human, for all intents and purposes. So she accepts her, (by basically ignoring her), into her circle, humoring Xander.

By season 7, they have a bit of a history, yes. But Anya has just qualified to be killed, by Buffy's standards, on points 1 and 2. So, having to make the difficult, calculated decisions as she does, she chooses to kill her. From a logical standpoint it makes a lot of sense.

It's not a double standard, because Buffy applied the exact same criteria to the vampires in her life. Angel is pretty straightforward, and Spike? As soon as he was powerless, humanlike, and not killing, Buffy couldn't kill him. Didn't qualify either point. In season 4 when she thinks for a moment that he's removed his chip, she does come after him--(also taking the leap that he will kill, which perhaps isn't fair but also isn't a logical stretch). Then, back to the state of things as they were. In 7, Spike is under the influence of the First. It isn't simply her feelings for him that keep her from making a rash decision on his part. His actions are very clearly different from Anya, who chose to become a demon again, (as a direct parallel to Spike choosing to get his soul at the very same time), and she began killing again.

So Buffy deserves credit here for her consistency, even if the calmness with which she goes about it is quite alarming.

Great point, and I agree that this moment was consistent with Buffy's character and the way she saw her role as the slayer. She only went after a vampire or demon if they represented a current threat, i.e. they were actively killing people, or killing them was the only way to save the world. She leaves a good childhood friend to die at the hands of vampires because of the threat he represented (Lie To Me). She kills Angel and sends him to hell(Becoming Part 2), after his soul is restored because it is the only way to stop Acathla from sucking the world into hell. As for the calmness I think this has more to do with the fact that she is in fact having trouble with this decision. When she walks away from Willow and Xander in order to go and find Anya, she says, "Then find me another way." Which I take to mean that she really doesn't want to do this but can't really see any way around it, but would take an alternative option if it was offered.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

^^I just want to make one adjustment to what I said before about Buffy's standards for slaying: (1. they must be powerful, 2. currently killing).

I realize that when she patrols, only half of the criteria are completely certain. Buffy assumes that the vampires/demons she's attacking are killing. But until the end of Spike's redemption arc, she didn't really have a reason to assume otherwise. I think that now, in season 9, she should be thinking about point #2 a bit more.
Anyway, for the sake of my argument re: double standard for killing Anya, I think this holds true throughout the series.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think it makes sense. I aslo think it killed her that she had to do it, but somewhere along the line, I don't know when, maybe the moment she heard about Anya, Buffy must have decided that she must sometimes be cold and seem ruthless to get the job done. I don't believe she actually didn't care that she had to kill Anya, she just decided that it needed to be done.

I think Buffy was always aware that Anya might kill again, maybe she was even prepared to one day having to do it.

And I don't blame her. People were dying, and they gave Anya a chance, treated her like a friend for years, yet she turned back to her old ways. I think it was very big of the gang to give her a second chance in the first place. I was always surprised how easy they all(except Willow) accepted Anya, even after she tried to have Willow killed and was mad about not being able to have her powers. Very odd.

And I don't think one could compare a millenia of killing people when one has a soul then being sad one couldn't do it anymore right in front of Buffy and the others, to Angel and Spike, who didn't have souls, and Willow who was heartbroken and stupid for a few months and then she lost the love of her life. Anya didn't show regret until years after the gang had accepted her, while the others weren't to blame the same way, and they did feel guilt a lot faster than Anya.

I agree that it's very alarming how quick Buffy is to go for the kill. But I don't think it's actually double standard-y of her. Here's what I mean:

We know that for Buffy to justify killing a vampire or demon, it must be 1) powerful, not incapacitated in any way, and 2)currently killing. (Added bonus if said creature is about to destroy the world and needs to be sacrificed in its place). These are the standards she's upheld very consistently throughout the series.

I agree, she only kills when the perspn that needs killing is a active threat.

In season 4 when Anya returns to the lives of the scoobies, she's just recently killed all of them in a Wishverse. To Buffy, she's nothing more than a demon that, on an ordinary day, would need to be killed. But Buffy would never consider killing her at this point, because she is powerless. Human, for all intents and purposes. So she accepts her, (by basically ignoring her), into her circle, humoring Xander.

I don't think the Scoobies new about what happened in the Wish verse. The rest of your post I agree with.

 

[Nathan]

I don't think Anya & Buffy were as close as people think; I think their relationship was stretched at the very least. Anya's speech about Buffy in S7 when the scoobies & potential turned on her was really spiteful, it was like that hatred had been building up over the course of the 5 seasons she was in. Also, as mentioned, Spike had slept with Anya too, so it didn't help. But I think Buffy was waiting for an excuse to give Anya a smack tbh.

That being said, killing her is a bit extreme LOL!

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I don't think the Scoobies new about what happened in the Wish verse. The rest of your post I agree with.

Crap, I always forget about that--I really can't wrap my head around them not knowing for the rest of the series. I'm convinced that Anya tells them at one point--she has to at least tell Xander, right? Gah, anyway, you're right--doesn't help my point.

But they know she's up to no good in Doppelgangland, and she could have gotten Willow killed. So at least there's that!

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------

And I don't think one could compare a millenia of killing people when one has a soul then being sad one couldn't do it anymore right in front of Buffy and the others, to Angel and Spike, who didn't have souls, and Willow who was heartbroken and stupid for a few months and then she lost the love of her life. Anya didn't show regret until years after the gang had accepted her, while the others weren't to blame the same way, and they did feel guilt a lot faster than Anya.

This--I'm always saying this!

 

[Icarium]

I agree that it's very alarming how quick Buffy is to go for the kill.

Quick? She should have done something about Anyanka 2.0. months ago.

She only went after a vampire or demon if they represented a current threat, i.e. they were actively killing people, or killing them was the only way to save the world.

No, she didn't. She killed plenty of vampires right after they rose from the grave. Vampires weren't killed for what they do but for what they were. Waiting to make sure they would actually try to kill someone was never Buffy's MO.

The problem is Selfless is that there is a very simple way of neutralising Anya without killing her. Not that I am against killing her, mind you, but I find it ridiculous that destroying her pendant was never mentioned as an option. Me thinks Drew Goddard tried desperately to emulate Becoming but couldn't pull it off because he, well, sucks as a writer.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

No, she didn't. She killed plenty of vampires right after they rose from the grave. Vampires weren't killed for what they do but for what they were. Waiting to make sure they would actually try to kill someone was never Buffy's MO.

And what they were were killers. Buffy didn't go after demons that weren't likely to kill, for example Clem.

 

[ticonderouga]

The problem is Selfless is that there is a very simple way of neutralising Anya without killing her. Not that I am against killing her, mind you, but I find it ridiculous that destroying her pendant was never mentioned as an option.

Yes, but that information was revealed in the Wish verse and so was not common knowledge to the Scoobies, and Giles wasn't there to help find that information. After all the last time that the amulet was mentioned was in Dopplegangland and I don't think Anya ever shared how important that was to her power.

 

[Icarium]

Yes, but that information was revealed in the Wish verse and so was not common knowledge to the Scoobies

Anya more or less told them about the pendant that when Halfrek had locked them in the house in Older and Far Away. And I can't believe that after Anya telling "funny" stories about her past and having Willow do a spell to find the pendant in Doppelgangland, the Scoobies wouldn't know all about her power center. Even if they didn't, they could have just done what Giles did In The Wish. No, scratch that - they should have done that. Right after they learned about Anyanka 2.0.

 

[Dagenspear]

Anya more or less told them about the pendant that when Halfrek had locked them in the house in Older and Far Away. And I can't believe that after Anya telling "funny" stories about her past and having Willow do a spell to find the pendant in Doppelgangland, the Scoobies wouldn't know all about her power center. Even if they didn't, they could have just done what Giles did In The Wish. No, scratch that - they should have done that. Right after they learned about Anyanka 2.0.

And they would get the pendant, how?

 

[Icarium]

And they would get the pendant, how?

You have watched The Wish, I presume? How did Giles do it back then? Simple, he just grabbed it in the struggle with Anya. Same way Buffy took the Gem of Amara from Spike. Not exactly a complicated method.

 

[Dagenspear]

You have watched The Wish, I presume? How did Giles do it back then? Simple, he just grabbed it in the struggle with Anya. Same way Buffy took the Gem of Amara from Spike. Not exactly a complicated method.

I'm sure she would've made it more difficult the second time around. Did they know about the pendant's easily destructable quality?

 

[OhWow]

When Angel lost his soul she was so hesitant and indecisive which resulted in the death of Jenny, Kendra, and injury to her friends. I figure this time around, she wanted to do it right, before anyone she loved had to suffer.

She understood that Xander would never be able to see it clearly because she was in that same situation years ago. Now she has the experience and sense to deal with it reasonably.