You guys must have discussed this one before. Sunnydale is a very lily white community. You'd have the occasional African-American. Plenty of undead Americans. I was always mystified about the lack of Hispanic-Americans. It's a southern-central california coast town right? I'm supposing there are still many thoroughly white, small California communities with no hispanics? You tell me. And how about Asian-Americans? Just mainly concentrated in LA and San Francisco? It just seems odd because I sense that Hollywood is terrified of being perceived as non-PC. But I guess that sentiment isn't always reflected in their product. Is the Buffy culture one that appeals mainly to white kids? Angel was always more diverse of course, because of LA. But even there...
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Buffyculturalism
- Thread starter goldenboy
- Start date
doppelgänger2
Meh.
Interesting... I've thought about this a little now and then.
I don't know if it's because I'm hispanic/latina that I've wondered so many times why the heck there's no salsa-flavour in this show.
Something tells me that most buffy fans are "white" and I think you can explain this the same way you explain why most goth kids are white.
I definitely understand why african-american kids or hispanic-american kids would be less drawn to the series than white kids. Maybe being part of a suppressed minority makes you want to identify with those like you rather than some white middleclass kids running around chasing demons with wooden sticks? I dunno.
A good example of this is in the movie 'Bring it on', when Torrance and Missy go to compton and those east compton chicks start frontin calling them "Buffies"
I don't know if it's because I'm hispanic/latina that I've wondered so many times why the heck there's no salsa-flavour in this show.
Something tells me that most buffy fans are "white" and I think you can explain this the same way you explain why most goth kids are white.
I definitely understand why african-american kids or hispanic-american kids would be less drawn to the series than white kids. Maybe being part of a suppressed minority makes you want to identify with those like you rather than some white middleclass kids running around chasing demons with wooden sticks? I dunno.
A good example of this is in the movie 'Bring it on', when Torrance and Missy go to compton and those east compton chicks start frontin calling them "Buffies"
A
Amber Benson
HAHA.... You said "frontin".... :)
I'm sure you're probably right to a degree about the minority turn-off factor. If one can't very easily relate, one often tends to ignore. I noticed most of the bands at the Bronze were sensitive folkies, goth-rock, cello-goth, watered down alterna-rock. I remember Cibo Matto early on. Loved that. Can't recall much of anything you'd call hip hop. I'm a garden variety white guy and I liked almost all the music.
Xander
You Can Call Me Ash
I think theres too much concern with being PC, a lot of shows are being made to have non-white characters so as not to offend anyone, but surely isn't the token ethnic-minority more offensive?
I just think it all fell down to casting, maybe more white actors auditioned. It doesn't really affect the show in any way what race they are. And if we wan't to boil it down, Sunnydale is a fictional town, does it have to follow averages of races?
I just think it all fell down to casting, maybe more white actors auditioned. It doesn't really affect the show in any way what race they are. And if we wan't to boil it down, Sunnydale is a fictional town, does it have to follow averages of races?
Amber Benson
Currently Pending
I'm not racist in any way, so I'm sort of on both sides of this one...
I heard that part of the reason for the Potentials in the first place, was to bring ethnic diversity to the set of Buffy... So, yea...
Also, I'm more curious how it would have worked HAD they made that decision earlier. You see in all or most scary movies that "the black person always gets it first"... And then there are those who make fun of that "fact". I'm just curious if Joss decided that it was easier to keep it the way it started, with ethnicity as a minority... Not being predjudice or anything, but there are a lot of things that people get pissed off by, and if you try to accomodate every little request by everyone, then things just get messy. Buffy wouldn't have turned out any better or worse had they changed any of that... That's just the way Sunnydale was, and most small communities are.
I heard that part of the reason for the Potentials in the first place, was to bring ethnic diversity to the set of Buffy... So, yea...
Also, I'm more curious how it would have worked HAD they made that decision earlier. You see in all or most scary movies that "the black person always gets it first"... And then there are those who make fun of that "fact". I'm just curious if Joss decided that it was easier to keep it the way it started, with ethnicity as a minority... Not being predjudice or anything, but there are a lot of things that people get pissed off by, and if you try to accomodate every little request by everyone, then things just get messy. Buffy wouldn't have turned out any better or worse had they changed any of that... That's just the way Sunnydale was, and most small communities are.
Xander
You Can Call Me Ash
Amber Benson if I understand you correctly are you saying that if there was an ethnic minority (EM for future reference) and they were killed people would say Joss is racist for doing so?
If you are its very reminiscent of the backlash of the Evil Willow story, whereby people complained that the whole dead/evil lesbian was an anti-gay thing. That always struck me, as for the 2 1/2 years before Willow and Tara had had the sweetest and healthiest relationship on the show, but are apparently meant to stay together because they're lesbians.
If you are its very reminiscent of the backlash of the Evil Willow story, whereby people complained that the whole dead/evil lesbian was an anti-gay thing. That always struck me, as for the 2 1/2 years before Willow and Tara had had the sweetest and healthiest relationship on the show, but are apparently meant to stay together because they're lesbians.
Amber Benson
Currently Pending
Xander said:Amber Benson if I understand you correctly are you saying that if there was an ethnic minority (EM for future reference) and they were killed people would say Joss is racist for doing so?
If you are its very reminiscent of the backlash of the Evil Willow story, whereby people complained that the whole dead/evil lesbian was an anti-gay thing. That always struck me, as for the 2 1/2 years before Willow and Tara had had the sweetest and healthiest relationship on the show, but are apparently meant to stay together because they're lesbians.
I think that people always look for something to complain about... You'd be surprised at what some people can come up with...
And being one of those how thought Willow and Tara should have been meant to stay together. My reasoning is more along the lines of, its her soulmate... If you think about it, Willow loses more "loves" than anyone (besides Buffy). She technically loses 4 (if you count "Malcolm"), and Tara was her true, never hurt her, loved her more than anything, love...
Jill_Valentine
Sacred and Profane
Well, to recycle an arguement I made about something else, Buffy's world is built as a slightly off-kilter Slasher movie. Slasher movies are generally set in Sleepy Little Townsville, USA, and Hollywood seems convnced that Sleepy Little Townsville is represented best by prosperous caucasians.
And I agree, a token character would have been insulting the intelligence of it's viewers.
Smallville.
Because the show doesn't really deal with real world dynamics, so much as internal battles and relationship politics, it doesn't really make a big difference, and because, particularly at a high school level, ethnic groups do tend to clump, it isn't quite as glaring as it might be.
And I agree, a token character would have been insulting the intelligence of it's viewers.
Smallville.
Because the show doesn't really deal with real world dynamics, so much as internal battles and relationship politics, it doesn't really make a big difference, and because, particularly at a high school level, ethnic groups do tend to clump, it isn't quite as glaring as it might be.
doppelgänger2
Meh.
I'm with Ash on this one.
Now, if I would make a remark on the race-thing, the lack of minorities, I wouldn't be claiming that Joss is a racist. I would just make a remark.
True about the potentials, having it another way would be kinds strange if you ask me. I would wonder, ar all slayers caucasians?
[And speaking of Tara and Willow; I think it's quite silly to say that Tara's death was anti-gay. I believe that Tara died because of what Willow did with Buffy, and whoa that's a whole other issue...]
Now, if I would make a remark on the race-thing, the lack of minorities, I wouldn't be claiming that Joss is a racist. I would just make a remark.
True about the potentials, having it another way would be kinds strange if you ask me. I would wonder, ar all slayers caucasians?
[And speaking of Tara and Willow; I think it's quite silly to say that Tara's death was anti-gay. I believe that Tara died because of what Willow did with Buffy, and whoa that's a whole other issue...]
I agree, PC tokenism is offensive. It's usually quite obvious. And I despise speech codes and restrictions on artistic expression, even "offensive" expression. I see no evidence Joss is "racist". I was just thinking realistically, geographically it seemed strange. It is Joss's fantasy creation. But I honestly don't know.
I thought it was fine. I think they should just pick the best people for the show and that's what they did. Having a token minority in there to be PC is just silly to me. There are lots of small towns that are still predominately white. It's not like there weren't any minorities in the whole series. The slayers seemed very diverse, since we saw Kendra, Nikki, the Chinese slayer (not sure she had a name) and then of course all those potentials at the end. I always thought it was really cool how the slayers were so many different nationalities. Dawn had that Hispanic guy friend at the beginning of season 7, I was kind of surprised they didn't show him again. I guess it was because with all those potentials there wasn't room for any more teens on the show. There are black shows, especially on UPN, that have mostly black characters and maybe one token white character. I don't think they did anything wrong by casting Buffy the way they did.