Yay! a fellow Xander fan
You have just met the biggest Xander fan on the planet. 😀
Yay! a fellow Xander fan
You have just met the biggest Xander fan on the planet. 😀
Finally,looking through this forum Xander is obviously not very popular here even though he was like my favourite character, i never understand all the hate put towards him.
He whined over Buffy's relationship with Angel, which was none of his business.
He also basically attempted to rape Buffy in s1 in the Hyena episode, then lies about not remembering it instead of apologizing.
Oh and even once you think Xander has matured, he has the audacity to ask Buffy to spare Anya when in s3 he told Buffy to "kick his ass" referring to Angel when he knew Willow was going to ensoul him. Regardless of her feelings or his, he should have told her that Willow was casting that spell so maybe she could have stalled him longer.
I Would agree that Xander in the highschool seasons (specially s3) was kind of a dick but Xander from S4-S7 was easily one of my favourite characters he had such massive growth through out these season (yes even though his arc isnt as flashy as the other characters) and how exactly is Xander a terrible friend i mean he had no powers of any kind and he still risked his life every week to be there with Buffy, If someone risked there life everyday to help me fight evil i wouldn't exactly call them a poor friend and i love how you conveniently don't mention the time he saved the world without any sort of powers.Xander does have his faults like the scene in becoming pt.2 but i feel like thats the only thing people latch on to while criticizing Xander and that was him as a teenager and he makes up for his mistakes multiple times after this and Xander was not wrong in defending Anya in Selfless what else do u expect him to do and lets not forget Buffy risk everyones lives only episodes later by keeping Spike in the house even though he being used by The First.
Xander was attracted to Buffy, Willow and Cordelia at the same time but to different degrees. He didn't handle any of those relationships well, I agree about that. However, the end result, he lost all three girls in the sense that he didn't end up with any of them. The show acknowledges that he behaved badly and he learned from those experiences: he admitted to Buffy in Amends that he was never a good friend when it came to Angel and helped her save Angel from that moment on, he and Willow stopped being close after they were caught and he clearly felt guilty concerning Oz in that episode with Hansel and Gretel. He bought Cordelia her prom dress and told no one about her family problems - he could have seized that moment to get back at Cordelia for talking about his home life when he had told her before to keep it a secret, but he didn't stoop that low.
Both situations are different. Xander was possessed against his consent, AKA didn't have to free will to act. Spike was the same Spike who protected Dawn, same Spike who helped save the world, he was not possessed. I'd argue that Xander was a victim in The Pack, the same way Jenny was a victim in The Dark Age, and she did attempt to rape Giles at his apartment, Jenny was treated as a victim in that episode and no one expected her to apologize for something she had no control over, why different rules apply to Xander?
That episode was a turning point for Xander's character development. He was finally put in the same shoes as Buffy - notice that right after that episode Xander takes Spike in as a roommate and never accuses Spike of turning evil when Anya and Dawn were weary of him in Never Leave Me.
We'll have to agree to disagree here. Xander showed Buffy and Willow a lot of respect in the majority of episodes - Xander following Buffy's lead without any questions outnumbers the times he disagreed with her. Xander electing Willow as their leader after Buffy's death shows a lot of respect.
I think Willow is the best friend of both Buffy and Xander. Xander and Willow both grew up together so they share a deep bond but Buffy was another girl for Willow to bond with and discuss things with that Xander couldn't possibly understand because of the fact he's not a girl.
I think Xander's main issue with Angel was that he was a vampire. Xander's experience with vampires is Vampire=Not good. Whilst Xander probably did feel a little jealousy, I think his main concern was that Buffy was getting involved with a vampire. In some respects Xander was right to be concerned because of what happened when Angel turned into Angelus. Also Angel isn't exactly protective of Xander. In School Hard, he offered Xander up to Spike as a snack in the hope that Spike would think Angel was Angelus (he didn't) but Angel's plan didn't seem to extend beyond that. Here's the transcript for that scene:
Xander: So, when you gave him my neck to chew on, why didn't you clock
him before he had a chance to clock you?
Angel: I told you. I couldn't make the first move. I had to see if he
was buying it or not.
Xander: A-and if he bit me, what then?
Angel: We would've known he bought it.
Xander was possessed so didn't really have control. He was then probably too embarrassed and just wanted to move on as fast as possible.
He told Buffy before she went into battle with Angelus. If he'd told her and Buffy tried stalling, it's likely that Buffy would've been killed. Angelus would've killed Buffy therefore she needed to try and kill Angelus, if she'd held back, he would've gotten the better of her. Whilst Xander shouldn't have said to "kick his ass", he did the right thing by not telling Buffy about the ensoulment plan because it wasn't guaranteed that it was going to work. Xander would rather Buffy hate him and be alive than like him and be dead.
I would say he definitely did improve in s4-s7. I won't deny that at all. I also never denied that he saved the world by calming evil Willow down. I was giving reasons as to why I dislike Xander, not reasons why I think he is a good friend, because I obviously don't think he was a very good friend. I understand he has done good and stuck by Buffy even though he had no super powers. I guess the first 3 seasons just really soured his character for me and other instances throughout s4-s7 (just less often). I just felt like his character could have been written differently. He constantly put all the women down in his life and this continued in the later seasons with Anya and Buffy. He never seems to be as condescending to Willow as he is to Buffy anyways. Yeah, but you can't just disregard what happened in Becoming Pt. 2 because you like a character. I expected Xander to not be such a hypocrite when Buffy felt the same way about Angel in s2, except Angel didn't choose to become evil like Anya did. Also, if Xander has matured so much by this point, why didn't he understand what a teenage Buffy obviously understood-- that is that he/she causing the destruction/killing must be eliminated.
I don't care why Xander lied to Buffy. All possible reasons won't change the fact that he should have told her. At the end of the day she's the one fighting the fight so she should have known. Basically, he thought he knew better than her and that she wouldn't be able to make good decisions and to me that says he had no respect for her role as a slayer.
I do like Xander (especially towards the end of the show) but I will never not be salty about what he did in Becoming and how he treated Buffy in early season 3.
Back on topic : I think Willow was her best friend. They supported each other through a lot. Willow was often the one defending Buffy, especially in early seasons. She was very understanding. I think the relationship became a bit strained towards the end due to both Willow becoming more of her own person and Buffy getting more and more isolated after High school. But I think they were still best friends in season 7, it's just that being best friends when you're older doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as in high school so of course the relationship changed.
Yeah, you could tell going to the Xander section. The Xander bashing threads have so many responses, the Xander loving threads have either three or four replies. It's refreshing to have another Xander fan around. We could start a thread about all things Xander at the Xander section. I'm starting it right now. 🙂
He was degrading to women in the first 3 seasons (specially cordelia) but so was every single person i mean almost everyone on the show at one point called her a slut or a whore or some bullshit like
All the characters slut shamed on the show, including Cordelia who slut shamed Faith and later on AtS slut shamed other women. Cordelia also made fun of Xander on account of being "less than a man." She accused him of "running like a woman." Boys and girls had certain expectations from society, and no wonder Xander had to struggle with his place in the world when he's expected to act a certain way.
Yeah and im pretty sure it was all unintentional i doubt any of the character meant any of the stuff they said it as was played for laughs mostly
He was degrading to women in the first 3 seasons (specially cordelia) but so was every single person i mean almost everyone on the show at one point called her a slut or a whore or some bullshit like that but i don't exactly understand when he was degrading Buffy his experience with Buffy was the complete opposite He called Buffy his hero in The Freshman and had always treated her with respect and he never degraded Anya either i mean anyone who watched the seventh season knows that he respected her very much and cared about her alot
You know Xander was never one of my fave characters but if I had to make a top 10 list of characters for S5-7 he would be the only one from the main cast to find a spot in there.Yeah, you could tell going to the Xander section. The Xander bashing threads have so many responses, the Xander loving threads have either three or four replies. It's refreshing to have another Xander fan around. We could start a thread about all things Xander at the Xander section. I'm starting it right now. 🙂
Ok trying to sort out your reply because it's hard to grasp where your sentences end without punctuation. So I hope I don't mix up my reply. I don't think he was ever degrading to Buffy. In the first 2 Seasons he often felt less manly and wanted to be her big hero (see the S1 dream and his story/wish in Surprise) and that sometimes lead to him reacting rashly. After that he stopped seeing Buffy as a person first and only his personal hero. So whenever she didn't fulfill his percieved superhero standard that he made up in his head, he let her know. In early seasons that resulted in downright verbal abuse (don't think it was meant to but it's how NB chose to say it). But generally he expected that her morals and ethics be better than that of we mere mortals, hence the way he reacts to her in regards to Angel and Spike
It's not my first language either.Yeah im sorry english isn't exactly my first language and my grammar's pretty shit tbh.
Yeah and as i said before i heavily disliked Xander in season 3 (specially in the episode with all the zombies and stuff)he was a massive dick to Buffy and just a jerk overall however i don't really think he was verbally abusive to Buffy,just cause he was the only one to point out that alot of the decisions Buffy made weren't exactly stellar doesn't mean he was verbally abusing her.
He was degrading to women in the first 3 seasons (specially cordelia) but so was every single person i mean almost everyone on the show at one point called her a slut or a whore or some bullshit like that but i don't exactly understand when he was degrading Buffy his experience with Buffy was the complete opposite He called Buffy his hero in The Freshman and had always treated her with respect and he never degraded Anya either i mean anyone who watched the seventh season knows that he respected her very much and cared about her alot
and yes what he did in becoming pt.2 was shitty but thats the point of the show,all the characters made mistakes which they learn from and he very much learns from his mistakes by season 7 when he helps Spike and doesn't object to him being in the house even when he was controlled by the first because he trusted Buffy's judgement.
That honestly pissed me off alot too but as i said earlier isn't that the point of the show that the characters would make mistakes and learn from them and grow?
Like leaving Anya at the alter, what a wimp thing to do. At least have the decency to tell her beforehand like when Angel told Buffy he was going to leave town. I didn't like either decision, but at least Angel had enough respect for Buffy to let her know what was happening. Xander just humiliated Anya in front of all her friends with no warning.
I'm with you there. Xander gets the whammy of a life time thanks to one of Anya's former victims, lets not forget. Literally having to life through the nightmare of being just as abusive as his parents. Yet the fandom and the show make him out to be a bad guy for that? That he wouldn't want to HURT Anya is suddenly considered evil? However I will say Xander must have had those fears for pretty much forever and that's something he should have looked into (with professional help) before seriously committing to anyone really.I don't hate Xander in Hell's Bells at all (I thought he was at his worst in Entropy, not Hell's Bells) because when he left at the end, he didn't do it out of malice and hate. He did it out of love and fear for Anya and for himself. What he did was wrong, but I'd class it in the same level of Buffy running away at the end of S2. It was not okay, but understandable.
I think @RomanticSoul explained a lot of my issues I have with Xander's treatment of Buffy. Maybe, I used the wrong term (degrading). I actually found a lot of Cordy's and Xander's back and forth banter (even when degrading) to be funny. It added to their sexual tension, IMO. But, his treatment of Buffy was always quite poor. He expected too much from her. He was so quick to judge and never really gave her a chance to explain.
It's not just his treatment of his friends, but I also didn't find him as funny as I know Joss was trying to make him be. I know he was supposed to be the comic relief, but I didn't find him that funny. So this didn't help me like the character. Idk if you have ever seen Friends, but Ross in the first 3 seasons can actually be quite misogynistic, but to me his humor and character balanced that out for me to where I liked the character. There was never enough balance with Xander for me to have this turning point, of wow he's not so bad. Just an example, so you can see that I can eventually get over a character's past actions, just not with Xander because I never felt like he improved. Like leaving Anya at the alter, what a wimp thing to do. At least have the decency to tell her beforehand like when Angel told Buffy he was going to leave town. I didn't like either decision, but at least Angel had enough respect for Buffy to let her know what was happening. Xander just humiliated Anya in front of all her friends with no warning.
It's not my first language either.
And I don't mean that he was verbally abusive or meant to be abusive. It's just the way Nicholas Brendon chose to say certain things where I was thinking 'whoa man, I know you don't like what she did and I know you have a crappy home life but don't take it out on her'.