Buffy's Boyfriends

[white avenger]

This is a question for everyone, not just any specific shippers. Do you think that Buffy's story would have been better if Angel and Spike had been human, rather than vampires, or do you think that the irony of the vampire slayer/vampire relationship actually made the show special?

I just thought that I would put this in here to show how far afield this thread has gone from the original question. I'm not complaining, mind you, 'cause I'm probably the worst one here for getting off topic in my enthusiasm for a particular subject. In fact, it's been kinda fun to see it wander.

 

[Antho]

Well a title like « Buffy’s boyfriend » is not very precise. There are much things to say about this subject..

 

[Ethan Reigns]

The real question is whether Buffy is relationship material. That doesn't mean there would be no drama from her hooking up with someone - just the opposite. And having her "sleeping with the enemy" is a drama that guarantees a reaction from her Watcher and her friends and she hides both relationships for exactly that reason.

 

[white avenger]

Well a title like « Buffy’s boyfriend » is not very precise. There are much things to say about this subject..

True, but the question was whether or not the specific fact that Angel and/or Spike being vampires was actually vital to the general story line of the show.

 

[hotbons]

Okay, before I posed this question (this is something I really hadn’t considered at all in the last 20 years so this might have been covered already many many times, but I haven’t been able to find it) I have been re-Watching the series for the 10,000th Time (alongside Ian Nitram’s Passion of the Nerd reviews) and around the episode Innocence, something struck me.
WHEN THE HELL DOES EVERYONE (specifically Angel) find out what the exact trigger to losing Angel’s soul is?
We know that Jennie and her uncle know (and likely all of the Kalderhash (sp) people) that “one moment of true happiness/contentment” can be his undoing but Angel kills them BOTH before they can relay that EXACT message to anyone else.
True, the Scoobies eventually discover that sex with Buffy was his trigger, but it’s not like it was ever directly communicated on screen.
This all can be explained away by “oh Miss Calendar must have divulged the information to Buffy and Giles at some point before her demise”, and that I can forgive, but WHEN does Angel find out?
In “Innocence” when Spike asks him what changed he replies with “you wouldn’t believe me if I told you”, the implication being “I made love to my girlfriend and then it happened”, but unless he was laying there in his post coital Bliss thinking “man, this is true happiness”, when does he find out?? Does Drusilla have a vision and tell him?
I could go on about how Angel was very underdeveloped as a “person” in season 2, since he spent the prior 100 years eating rats and avoiding people, so it would make sense that taking comfort in his girlfriend would give him temporary joy, but by Season 3 of his own show, he’d made tremendous strides in his own personal growth so I don’t know if it’d even have the same effect if they slept together at that point, but ... has anyone else contemplated this?
Thanks in advance / sorry for the incoherent and unrelated rambling. x

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Okay, before I posed this question (this is something I really hadn’t considered at all in the last 20 years so this might have been covered already many many times, but I haven’t been able to find it) I have been re-Watching the series for the 10,000th Time (alongside Ian Nitram’s Passion of the Nerd reviews) and around the episode Innocence, something struck me.
WHEN THE HELL DOES EVERYONE (specifically Angel) find out what the exact trigger to losing Angel’s soul is?
We know that Jennie and her uncle know (and likely all of the Kalderhash (sp) people) that “one moment of true happiness/contentment” can be his undoing but Angel kills them BOTH before they can relay that EXACT message to anyone else.
True, the Scoobies eventually discover that sex with Buffy was his trigger, but it’s not like it was ever directly communicated on screen.
This all can be explained away by “oh Miss Calendar must have divulged the information to Buffy and Giles at some point before her demise”, and that I can forgive, but WHEN does Angel find out?
In “Innocence” when Spike asks him what changed he replies with “you wouldn’t believe me if I told you”, the implication being “I made love to my girlfriend and then it happened”, but unless he was laying there in his post coital Bliss thinking “man, this is true happiness”, when does he find out?? Does Drusilla have a vision and tell him?
I could go on about how Angel was very underdeveloped as a “person” in season 2, since he spent the prior 100 years eating rats and avoiding people, so it would make sense that taking comfort in his girlfriend would give him temporary joy, but by Season 3 of his own show, he’d made tremendous strides in his own personal growth so I don’t know if it’d even have the same effect if they slept together at that point, but ... has anyone else contemplated this?
Thanks in advance / sorry for the incoherent and unrelated rambling. x

Near the beginning of Becoming Part 2, we get this exchange between Whistler and Buffy:

WHISTLER
You know, it wasn't supposed to
go down like this. Nobody saw
you coming. I figured this for
Angel's big day, but I thought
he was here to stop Acathla, not
bring him forth. But you two made
with the smootchies and now he's a creep again.

She hates to hear that. It takes her down a peg.

BUFFY
We didn't know. . .

WHISTLER
Hey, not here to judge. Body like yours -
I'd pretty much give up my soul for a
shot at that, too. But it took Angel off
the roster. Which puts you on the spot
in a big way. What are you gonna do?
What are you prepared to do?

BUFFY
Whatever I have to.

WHISTLER
Or maybe I should ask, what are
you prepared to give up?

At this point, Buffy realizes that she was the catalyst for the entire metamorphosis.

 

[hotbons]

Thanks. I appreciate the reply. I get that Whistler is this omniscient / omnipresent figure who is there to fill in the details, and we as the viewer sometimes take for granted that we know more than any one character, but it just drives me a little crazy that they left out mentioning the very specific disclaimer to the one person it mattered most to.
I mean, for all he knew, it was sex (in general) that was causing it to happen, so imo it was risky of him to sleep with Darla or Nina. There’s obviously a subtle distinction between sex and “perfect happiness” with even subtler nuances in that what makes someone TRULY happy is invariably subject to change, so... I guess I’ll just need to make peace with this (minor) omission that was never properly communicated to Angelus /Angel. In my mind, I’ll just assume that it was Uncle Enyos’ dying confession to him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And to not be an A-hole, to answer the original thread question:
I think that Buffy’s boyfriends being vampires was a tremendous idea. Although she denied it, Spike was correct in telling her that she enjoyed the darkness. So much can be said about why she felt the most connected to these undead characters who didn’t age and straddled the line between good and evil. She herself (like all slayers) had been almost guaranteed a short life, so it makes sense that she rarely thought about a future. Plus, tenuous relationships that are fueled by danger and controversy are generally the most exciting, especially to a young girl between the ages of 17-22. Or at least they were to me. 🙂

 

[Grace]

At this point, Buffy realizes that she was the catalyst for the entire metamorphosis.

I think Buffy knew long before that. Jenny tells Buffy and Giles in Innocence:

Jenny: (interrupts) I didn't know... exactly. I was told... (whispers) Oh, God. (speaks) I was sent here to watch you. They told me to keep you and Angel apart. They never told me what would happen.
Giles: (surprised and confused) Jenny!
Jenny: I'm sorry, Rupert. Angel was supposed to pay for what he did to my people.
Buffy: And me? What was I supposed to be paying for?
Jenny: I didn't know what would happen until after. I swear I would've told you.
Buffy: So it was me. I did it.
Jenny: I think so. I mean, if you...
Giles: (demanding) I don't understand.
Jenny: The curse. If Angel achieved true happiness, even just a moment of... He would lose his soul.
Giles: W-w-w-h-h-how do you know you were responsible f-for...
Buffy gives him a look. He takes off his glasses.
Giles: Oh.
They all look down.

As for when Angel found out, I don't know.

In my mind, I’ll just assume that it was Uncle Enyos’ dying confession to him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ha, we'll go with that.