Buffy's love for Angel

That is a really good thought. I think everyone's pretty right on talking about the timing. I think in season 7 if it was between Spike, Angel and Dawn she would pick Dawn mainly because she's human.
 
I think she'd pick Dawn because that is her family and, in a way, she is all Dawn really has. Plus, Angel would (supposing her could speak to her) tell her to pick Dawn as well. I mean, the man has been alive for 250+ years, I don't think death is much of a fear for him.
 
I would certainly hope Buffy would choose Dawn. In fact, it's quite sad as fans we have to even ask ourselves this question. It just goes to show how badly the Buffy/Dawn relationship was treated in the series and how neglected Dawn could be.

If Buffy's the amazing woman I think she is, she'd choose her sister.

When Buffy says in 'Selfless' that she loved Angel more than she would ever love anything in this life, she's talking about a *romantic* love which isn't the only type of love. It means very little in regards to Buffy/Joyce, Buffy/Dawn or perhaps even Buffy/Xander/Willow.

In regards to Angel/Spike, I think both vampires are in her heart but I think it's always been more about Angel. In fact in a recent Q/A on '*********' Buffy Season Eight artist Georges Jeanty said that the reason Buffy's closer to Angel in the Buffy/Angel/Spike threesome panel is because Joss instructed him to draw her this way because Joss said Buffy cared more for Angel.

I don't believe anyone has to automatically agree with Joss' opinion but it's worth having it anyway.
 
Buffy love Angel and she will love him forever. They're not together but Angel will be still in her heart. Like Buffy in Angel's. He was her true, the strongest, first really love and nothing change it. Never. And she'll be always care about him and always love. 'Cause she loves him all the time. I know, she was with Riley and Spike, and love their, but she always loved Angel too. There is my opinion 😉
 
Flannen said:
Plus Buffy is totally jealous of Faith's mindwalk with Angel LOL!
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No argument that she was jealous of Faith's very recent association with Angel. Sharing that mental link might arguably be even more intimate than sex. But no one can doubt either that she was just as jealous and possessive of Spike in "Dirty Girls" when she came down into the basement and cought Faith coming on (and there anyone here who can deny that she was doing exactly that?) to Spike.
 
Flannen
Flannen
Very true! I always forget these things!
Faith touching any part of Buffy's life makes her jealous.
 
Well Joss is the CREATOR of the show, so I'm pretty certain when he said that Buffy loves Angel more than Spike, that wasn't just his opinion. Without question he knows more about his character than we do. :redwink:
 
white avenger said:
No argument that she was jealous of Faith's very recent association with Angel. Sharing that mental link might arguably be even more intimate than sex. But no one can doubt either that she was just as jealous and possessive of Spike in "Dirty Girls" when she came down into the basement and cought Faith coming on (and there anyone here who can deny that she was doing exactly that?) to Spike.
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Yup! That whole scene was written to test the chemistry between Spike/Faith because they were considering a spin-off with these two characters, as it states in the commentary. Me thinks a Spike/Faith relationship was in the works 😉

I know it sounds silly saying this as I'm the guy who actually posted about what Joss said but I don't think anybody has to necessarily agree with Joss, even if in this instance I happen to. If Joss had said she cares about Spike more I'd still have believed what I saw on screen showed that she was always more invested in Angel and the fact Joss happens to agree with me, IMO, doesn't give my opinion any more credibility than the next person.

The only time I think people should agree with Joss no matter what is when they quote him in other discussions when they agree with him as to say they are right because Joss says so. You can't pick and choose when to claim his opinion is authority, it either is or it isn't.
 
Vampmogs said:
The only time I think people should agree with Joss no matter what is when they quote him in other discussions when they agree with him as to say they are right because Joss says so. You can't pick and choose when to claim his opinion is authority, it either is or it isn't.
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I don't agree with everything Joss Whedon does, in fact I have a long list of stuff that he has done on Buffy and Angel that piss me off. However, he is THE authority on his characters. As much as we love, adore and invest ourselves in their stories they are ultimately his. I think it is ludicrous to reject something Joss says simply becuase he is saying it and it is not happening on screen, especially when he is referring to something that actually did happen and he is simply shinning a light on the emotions and motivations behind it.

We can't just reject them as false or unimportant because we as fans don't like them.
 
B
Buff4ever
Yeah, Joss calls the shots.
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Perfect sweetie! (:
Kean said:
I don't agree with everything Joss Whedon does, in fact I have a long list of stuff that he has done on Buffy and Angel that piss me off. However, he is THE authority on his characters. As much as we love, adore and invest ourselves in their stories they are ultimately his. I think it is ludicrous to reject something Joss says simply becuase he is saying it and it is not happening on screen, especially when he is referring to something that actually did happen and he is simply shinning a light on the emotions and motivations behind it.

We can't just reject them as false or unimportant because we as fans don't like them.
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Completely behind you on that 100%, Kean! 🙂

She is very right. No matter what he does on the shows that we may have, because of what ship we prefer or what not, his opinion and what he says is the most important in the Buffy-verse and Joss-verse.

If he says Buffy ends up with Angel, Buffy will end up with Angel. If he says Buffy ends up with Spike, Buffy will end up with Spike. If he says that Buffy will end up with someone else or nobody at all, then so be it.

If he says it, it's probably eventually going to end up in the comics anyway, so we might as well accept it as the fact for now, because he most likely will put it in there.
 
I view 'Buffy' and 'Angel' as art, and art is interpreted differently by the each individual viewer. Could anyone here honestly say that they could just magically switch their opinion to whatever Joss says even if they have no idea how he came to that conclusion based on the series? What if Joss said Buffy’s always been in love with Andrew? Would people just blindly follow that even when it wasn’t shown clearly in the show whatsoever?

I’m 100% behind those in saying that only Joss has the power to say what is canon and what isn’t because you need that authority to determine what’s the official story and what isn’t. But how we interpret that story? Well if I honestly can’t feel it or view it as he does then I’m not going to say I do?

In this instance I happen to agree with Joss, I think Buffy does care more for Angel and probably always will. I believed the show portrayed that, but if he’d said she cared more for Spike I’d be at a loss because how I interpreted what I saw on screen didn’t make me feel that way? And I’m not sure I’d be able to suddenly view it in such a manner just because Joss does.

And really honestly, if you're a hardcore shipper of either Buffy/Angel or Buffy/Spike are we honestly believing that people can suddenly change their opinion and their views which they argue so adamantly… just like that? It takes Joss saying “Buffy cares more for Angel” and suddenly all the die-hard Spuffy shippers just agree, even if for years they’ve argued otherwise? I just don't see it happening.

Now if he says "Buffy will end up with Angel" then yeah, he's the creator of the series if he says it's going to happen then it's going to happen. But that's not what he said here. Just because she loves Angel more doesn't mean she'll end up with Angel.

I think Joss' opinion is important worth bringing up, but I don't think it's ever going to truly change someone's mind when people are so passionate about the series.
 
You speak of Joss's 'opinion' like he is just another writer or producer on the show. If it was Marti Noxon or Greenwalt we were talking about I may be inclined to agree with you but this is the creator. He knows things about the verse and the characters that we don't. There wasn't a script of Buffy and Angel that didn't get his approval, that he didn't ok. His 'opinion' is the show. What he thinks should happen, what he thinks someone felt or feels...that is what happened. And he isn't saying outlandish stuff either. He's not turning around and saying that Joyce is now alive and living happily with Ted. He isn't re-arranging the verse to suit his whims. Most of the time when Joss speaks about the show he is revealing or confirming emotions felt by characters.

I'm not too much of a Joss Whore...my respect for him is huge but he does eff up...alot. In regards what happens on ths how though, hwat he says goes. Like it or not that is it.
 
I agree with pretty much everything Kean says on this. I know what I'm about to say isn't on the same scale as Joss, but I did some Creative Writing modules last year, and the characters, generally the whole scene/atmosphere etc that you create, is completely your own. You create and develop them which ultimately makes them yours, you know more about the characters and what they experience/feel better than anyone, because you create it!

I remember having to do this really horrible task in one lesson where I was put in the middle of the room and literally interrogated about the main character of one my short stories. It was a really horrible experience being ont he spot but my tutor said that the point of the task was to show us that as a writer, you have to know everything about your character. In order to present a character convincingly to an audience/reader you need to know their entire background, what they feel about everything (not just their own experience but about life in general) even if you aren't including their history/childhood at all, in order to present that character justly you have to know that about them.

Not sure if this is making sense, or relevant, but basically I agree that as a writer, you have ultimate control and say over that they feel etc.
 
Kean said:
You speak of Joss's 'opinion' like he is just another writer or producer on the show. If it was Marti Noxon or Greenwalt we were talking about I may be inclined to agree with you but this is the creator. He knows things about the verse and the characters that we don't. There wasn't a script of Buffy and Angel that didn't get his approval, that he didn't ok. His 'opinion' is the show. What he thinks should happen, what he thinks someone felt or feels...that is what happened. And he isn't saying outlandish stuff either. He's not turning around and saying that Joyce is now alive and living happily with Ted. He isn't re-arranging the verse to suit his whims. Most of the time when Joss speaks about the show he is revealing or confirming emotions felt by characters.

I'm not too much of a Joss Whore...my respect for him is huge but he does eff up...alot. In regards what happens on these shows though,what he says goes. Like it or not that is it.
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All of this is true, and I agree with you up to a point. Buffy, Angel, Spike, Faith, Xander, Willow, and all of the rest, those are his babies, and what he says happens to them DOES happen to them. Unfortunately, Joss has said on at least one occasion that he would never let canon stand in the way of a good story. If he comes up with a great story that just happens to have Buffy end up happily married to Spike, or Xander, or the night watchman at the cemetery, anything that he has said in the past regarding Buffy and Angel gets tossed out the window in favor of that great story.

Personally, though, I think that Joss is smart enough to realize that it is to his advantage to keep the Spuffy/Bangel debate raging, simply because it keeps the fans interested.
 
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