Buffy's relationship with Giles

[Flannen]

Well, there were some funny scenes, but just few of them. I like Giles, very, very much. But the thing is that he changed. And we all felt it on screen.

Not all of us 😉

I don't think he really did change. Not in comparison to the way the others did. Out of all of them, I think he remained the most consistent.

 

[dan k]

The only way he changed for me was that the serious approach he always had held previously was stronger in season 7. The funny moments were still there though, in Chosen where he is playing the board game and remarks along the lines of "I used to be a respectful watcher now i am a dwarf is an example of the old Giles still being there. When he says "The Earth is doomed" is classic Giles, i am with Flannen in believing Giles's change wasn't as big as many people believe.

 

[KristenVictoria]

Perhaps it's because Giles was not given as much screen time compared to Seasons One to Five. Therefore, we only get to see him at specific moments. In Season Seven, he is often the one to bring reality back to the group (i.e. "First Date.")

I've only seen Season Seven once through (with the exception of seeing a couple episodes twice), so I don't want to write any concrete opinions, but do you think that Giles was treated as more of a minor character?

 

[This Year's Girl]

I think that Buffy's real affection for and dependency on Giles began when her real father in effect deserted her and ran away to live with his secretary in Europe. As time progressed, that affection and dependency grew until Season 6, when he left her (in the worst emotional state of mind that she had ever been in) in order to force her to face and overcome her own problems. Not the greatest timing, in my opinion, but it seemed to work, and work so well that just a few months later Giles found himself for the first time reduced from the role of "mentor" to "trusted adviser," which was no doubt a role he resisted (hence the attempt to kill Spike) before finally accepting the fact that, while Buffy might love him as much as ever, SHE was now the leader of the group, not just the warrior.

Agree! I think it was necessary for Buffy to distance her self from Giles to grow. I feel sympathy for Giles, it must have been hard fact to accept, but I really think he took it a bit to far at the end. I didn't like him as much then as I did in the first 4 seasons when he was my favourite a long side Buffy.

In the earlier seasons I didn't experience him as so controlling, even though he had a clearer role back then and was still needed more. I never felt that he was trying to tell Buffy what to do, at least not for his own sake rather than for hers as he is doing in season 7.

But I will always love Giles, so I'm a bit split in this issue.. 🙂

 

[dan k]

Two classic Buffy/Giles moments are the "I can't do this without you" scene which is just so full of emotion, i can't see how anyone couldn't love that scene.

The scene in helpless where Buffy finds out Giles poisoned her to me clarifies how important Giles was to Buffy. That astonishing look on her face reflected just how hurt she was. Then the scene at the end where Buffy lets Giles tend to her wounds and "the father's love comment" just makes a special episode. For me selfless is all about Buffy and Giles and how close the relationship they had become.

 

[Flannen]

^I also love the scene in Innocence (I think) when they're in his car and Buffy says that he must be so disappointed in her etc and he says all will he offer her is his support and respect.

It for scenes like this that their relationship in S7 crushes me. Huh, maybe I could put down Buffy becoming dislikeable to me from when Giles is around less...

 

[dan k]

Got to agree with the scene you mentioned. To some it could be deemed such a small moment but if your a fan of Buffy then you understand the power of that message from Giles. Just a lovely moment to watch.

In regard to season 7 i think so much had changed that it wasn't a surprise that the relationship between the two changed. They didn't spend a lot of time with one another whilst Buffy had done what Giles had wanted her too do. She was no longer a slayer who would run to her watcher everytime there was a problem. Her trust in herself had grown thanks to Giles leaving her to grow up as a person and as a slayer.

Consequently when Giles voiced concerns about Spike she wasn't one to listen. I'll also agree that Giles is different in season 7 in terms of how he speaks to Buffy. Yet i think that's because he knows that Buffy has grown into a Woman, the father/daughter bond had changed somewhat because her reliance on Giles wasn't there anymore.

"I can't do this without you" in season 2 shows Buffy's dependence on Giles. By season 7 she'd grown accustomed to Giles not being there. Giles trying to have Spike killed reminded me of how he killed Ben and when he implied they should kill Dawn in season 5.

In season 7 Buffy is clearly angry with what Giles tried to do and is now in a position where she doesn't feel she needs him, consequently the relationship unfortunately changes for the worse. I suppose it is a common thing among a father/daughter though. When the daughter is little the father is who she looks up too, who she relies on. As she grows up that reliance isn't there and that close bond they share ultimately changes.

 

[Flannen]

You see for me, especially being someone who has a really close relationship with my dad, well both my parents, I really don't like seeing her throw all of it back in his face. I agree that yes, a child grows up and the physical dependence lessens but that doesn't mean that a relationship must deteriorate. For me Buffy should be thanking Giles for the person that she is but I see little to no gratitude on her part.

Even though she doesn't have to depend on him so much, which is down to his departure, she should have still respected his concerns and given him the benefit of the doubt when it came to his mistakes. Personally her behaviour and her decisions, especially concerning Spike, and Anya actually, demonstrate to me that in rebuking that relationship she falls short herself.

I don't know, while I agree that relationships change and she grew up etc, I just don't like how everything that had come before was dismissed so quickly.

 

[dan k]

On reflection the relationship in season 7 isn't exactly bad until Giles tries to have Spike killed. That is the turning point in terms of there relationship going on a downward spiral. I presume Buffy's belief and commitment to Spike took precedence over what she felt for Giles.

She thought Giles had betrayed her and thus she lost some respect for him. What has to be remembered though is the scene where Buffy asks Giles for his opinion on the whole Scythe proposal. When he says he loves the idea, Buffy's response is not only saying "i really do" but there is a glow in her eyes telling me that the deep feelings she felt for Giles hadn't gone. She'd been hurt by what he tried to do with Spike but by this point had forgiven him.

It would have been interesting to see how the relationship unfolded just after Chosen. Would it have been back to the good old days in seasons 2, 3, 4 and 5? probably not but i think the respect and caring element of thier relationship never died. It might have been fractured, but deep down it was still there and always would be.