buffy's "vengeance"

[silvermoon]

I'm still not a huge Angel fan but watched a couple of the crossovers again. I forgot how sad some of it was, really.

This might be a repeat post, but I was not on board with Buffy's whole need for vengeance against Faith in Sanctuary. It made no sense to me and is the total opposite of Buffy's character, really. Angel accused her of wanting this and she didn't disagree. Yeah, I get all the terrible things Faith did, including the body swap, the treatment of Joyce, etc. but Buffy isn't exactly known for being a vengeance seeker. More a save the world kind of gal. Even in season 5 Giles makes a big deal out of her not being able to kill Ben because he's human.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Most of Buffy's behavior in her Angel crossovers was pretty out of character. I think they tried hard to put distance- physical and emotional- between the two characters to distinguise Angel as its own show and his purpose in LA much different than in Sunnydale.

That being said, I think she was pushed to her breaking point with Faith and the body swap. She didn't just violate Buffy, she also had sex with Riley, threatened her mom... She was DONE. She let her anger get the best of her, and yes... she acted out of vengeance. But we see her soften up towards the end of the crossover, in true Buffy fashion.

 

[silvermoon]

Most of Buffy's behavior in her Angel crossovers was pretty out of character. I think they tried hard to put distance- physical and emotional- between the two characters to distinguise Angel as its own show and his purpose in LA much different than in Sunnydale.

That being said, I think she was pushed to her breaking point with Faith and the body swap. She didn't just violate Buffy, she also had sex with Riley, threatened her mom... She was DONE. She let her anger get the best of her, and yes... she acted out of vengeance. But we see her soften up towards the end of the crossover, in true Buffy fashion.

very good analysis! i think you might be right, and Buffy was always uber protective of her loved ones

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Well, first remember. Buffy isn't the hero of this story, she's the antagonist.

Second, yeah. Buffy effectively lives in a lawless anarchy, and Faith just got away with an awful lot of stuff. And now she is retreating to LA and making connections with an evil law firm? This is an existential threat to the Scoobies, Fildelia delenda est.

Third, Angel doesn't have Buffy's mission. Buffy's mission is to kill stuff within her mandate of vampires, demons and the forces of darkness, which includes human collaborators. Whereas, Angel is really hoping that God will forgive him if he shrives some red on the ledger, therefore, trying to help other people repent of their evil is a noble effort, in the best tradition of American Angel literature. Because, if Faith can be redeemed, then Angel can be redeemed.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Most of Buffy's behavior in her Angel crossovers was pretty out of character. I think they tried hard to put distance- physical and emotional- between the two characters to distinguise Angel as its own show and his purpose in LA much different than in Sunnydale.

That being said, I think she was pushed to her breaking point with Faith and the body swap. She didn't just violate Buffy, she also had sex with Riley, threatened her mom... She was DONE. She let her anger get the best of her, and yes... she acted out of vengeance. But we see her soften up towards the end of the crossover, in true Buffy fashion.

She RAPED BUFFYS BOYFRIEND. I would be beyond mad. She stole and abused Buffy's body to use someone who would never have had sex with her. Buffy is nice and forgiving but there are limits. And Buffy's last.boyfriend (Angel) she tried to kill. Those are 2 unforgiveable things. Angel has some distance, thankfully. Buffy has none.

 

[thrasherpix]

I can understand Buffy's reaction. She always gets violent (at least threatening) when her boyfriends are harmed (or threatened with harm) in any way, and a body swap (with everything Buffy experienced along with everything Faith did) would be beyond the pale.

Still, I don't care for the writing. Buffy shows up without calling and, despite Angel's superhuman senses that should've warned him (and he should've been alert with W&H sending demon assassins after Faith), appears JUST AS Angel hugs Faith because Joss and friends got to have a moment of inducing jealous melodrama as they love to do to their characters way too often. And that's just one of the things that annoy me with how the scene was written.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

What Buffy really wanted was for Faith to be tried and convicted for the crimes she committed and jailed. A human being who did what Faith had done would have ended up in jail, if convicted. That would have been justice and not vengeance. What Buffy needed was justice and a hug, since she was a victim of Faith. Riley and her Mother were also victims. Not vengeance, because going for vengeance would have been wrong and would not have made her feel better. It is also not something Buffy would or should do. Not what being a slayer is all about.

I can understand why Buffy wasn’t so quick to forgive Faith and sorry doesn’t cut it after you’ve done all that Faith has done to Buffy. I guess to Angel Faith going to jail would have been vengeance.

 

[NotASlayer]

It's... not entirely out of character for Buffy when she lets her emotions get out of hand. It's also not the first time she's gone after Faith with blood in her eye because of something Faith has done. I can't remember the precise wording when she went after Faith the first time, but it was along the lines of going after Faith was her job, and it was also something she'd enjoy.

There are a lot of similarities between the first and second instances, and if Sanctuary had been a Buffy episode in Sunnydale, Buffy's actions would likely look different. Swapping shows, towns and not immediately following on made a difference.

 

[silvermoon]

Well, first remember. Buffy isn't the hero of this story, she's the antagonist.

Second, yeah. Buffy effectively lives in a lawless anarchy, and Faith just got away with an awful lot of stuff. And now she is retreating to LA and making connections with an evil law firm? This is an existential threat to the Scoobies, Fildelia delenda est.

Third, Angel doesn't have Buffy's mission. Buffy's mission is to kill stuff within her mandate of vampires, demons and the forces of darkness, which includes human collaborators. Whereas, Angel is really hoping that God will forgive him if he shrives some red on the ledger, therefore, trying to help other people repent of their evil is a noble effort, in the best tradition of American Angel literature. Because, if Faith can be redeemed, then Angel can be redeemed.

also a very good analysis. you are right, she is not the hero. all points noted

Post automatically merged: Jul 7, 2026

I can understand Buffy's reaction. She always gets violent (at least threatening) when her boyfriends are harmed (or threatened with harm) in any way, and a body swap (with everything Buffy experienced along with everything Faith did) would be beyond the pale.

Still, I don't care for the writing. Buffy shows up without calling and, despite Angel's superhuman senses that should've warned him (and he should've been alert with W&H sending demon assassins after Faith), appears JUST AS Angel hugs Faith because Joss and friends got to have a moment of inducing jealous melodrama as they love to do to their characters way too often. And that's just one of the things that annoy me with how the scene was written.

that's very true, and it happened in 7 with faith and spike, which felt a little forced to me.

Post automatically merged: Jul 7, 2026

What Buffy really wanted was for Faith to be tried and convicted for the crimes she committed and jailed. A human being who did what Faith had done would have ended up in jail, if convicted. That would have been justice and not vengeance. What Buffy needed was justice and a hug, since she was a victim of Faith. Riley and her Mother were also victims. Not vengeance, because going for vengeance would have been wrong and would not have made her feel better. It is also not something Buffy would or should do. Not what being a slayer is all about.

I can understand why Buffy wasn’t so quick to forgive Faith and sorry doesn’t cut it after you’ve done all that Faith has done to Buffy. I guess to Angel Faith going to jail would have been vengeance.

what i liked most was when Faith turns herself in . i agree it is not what a slayer is about. i still have mixed feelings about the episode although everyone has brought up good points.

 

[Btvs fan]

One thing not talked about is that in the Yoko Factor all the issues between Buffy and Angel in Sanctuary are simply dropped and they manufacture new ones to make Buffy look the sensible one