Buffyverse Deaths

[Blaze]

I hadn't realized until now how many death we actually have to choose from. Actually, all of my favorite characters aside from Faith died.

My favorite death would be Buffy in the Gift, it was a great conclusion to the slayer line.

Most tragic death, probably Wesley. He's the definition of a tragedy. Thetopher explained it well, by the end of it, Wes literally had nothing to live for. He was slowly dying away, and it started years before his actual death.

The death that made me the saddest, probably Tara's. I was so shocked when it happened. On Angel it would be Doyle.

There's just so many unfair, and sad death on the two shows, it's hard saying which one was the hardest. Every death felt like a punch to the gut, but it also made for some of the best episodes ever filmed, like the Body.

 

[Halfrek]

My favourite death is probably Joyce. I've always loved her grounding maternal influence on the show. Her death felt so raw because she's just always there, she's not ever in the forefront, she's not really even that important to the grand scheme of the show but she's just there and it's only when she's not there that you realise how important she was. She left such a void..at least for me. Joyce dying split the show into Buffy being a girl to her becoming a woman..and it's this uneasy transition which is all so uncomfortable to watch as Joyce becomes sick. Joyce's death was necessary for the show but I miss her character very much. I don't know whether it's due to my own loss in my life or not but watching The Body is a really painful experience. Everything seems so much more scary and real without having 'mum' around.

 

[VisionBoy]

Honorary mention, Lilah, I think she was turning the corner but Wesley once again got in his own way and ruined it.

Lilah alone stood between Wesley and his doom, Lilah alone, but he failed her and his doom did not fail to find him.

Could you elaborate on that? I can't see how Wes was responsible for Lilah's death. In fact if it hadn't been for him, she probably would've been killed by The Beast before Jasdelia got a chance.

 

[janas]

Although in that video isn't even mentioned, Darla's death is a my favourite.

 

[nightshade]

Passion is my favourite ep, and Jenny's death is a big part of that, so for Buffy I would say her. However I think the death on Angel are more emotional, for me anyway, Doyle's death to save others, Darla dying in the alley for her son, Fred's death, and finally Wes.

 

[jom]

Could you elaborate on that? I can't see how Wes was responsible for Lilah's death. In fact if it hadn't been for him, she probably would've been killed by The Beast before Jasdelia got a chance.

imagine this, Wesley almost dying for a stupid mistake and scorned and abandoned by his friends. In a hole where you got to reinvent yourself because the only thing left is self preservation and survival, in the mist of this comes a helping hand. Sure Lilah got close to him in the beginning to use him, Wesley understood this and he also did his own using but in the middle of using eachother, they got closer, they got hot for eachother, it was good companionship. Wesley had been hampered, had been miserable by an unrequited love he had for Fred. Here's Lilah who little by little is actually caring about him, this is a nice break, a new start, a time to move on and make himself a bit happier for as long as possible. Lilah is even humiliating herself by dressing like Fred just to please stubborn Wesley who keeps thinking about her. When the beast almost killed the Angels, Lilah ran to wesley's Apartment to make sure his was alright. You can see her distress and a bit of desperation, and how does Wesley pay her?, he breaks up with her with a stupid reason but she knew that it's was for Fred and he indeed went on to pursued Fred.
Sure he rescued Lilah from the beast only to abandoned her in the sewers and cleans his hands off of her. I believe if Wes had opened up himself to a new love, to Lilah whom i believe was turning the corner for him and would had joined his side, he could had saved her. He could had taken her to his apartment instead of leaving her in the sewers. He could had saved himself. Lets not kid ourselves, Wesley love for Fred made him miserable and he died because of it. This unrequited and stubborn love that finally was somewhat reciprocated doomed him.

Lilah alone stood between him and his doom. <-----i love that quote. Anybody who has read the Silmarillion might recognize this quote although im paraphrasing a bit.

 

[VisionBoy]

Okay, I guess I can understand your persepective now... but honestly, I think your making some massive leaps here to get to Wesley being to blame for her getting killed.
They both had issues the size of Texas and there were certainly times when they both could have treated each other a lot better, but I'm still not getting how you get from Wesley dumping her to Jasmine sticking a knife in her neck.

When the beast almost killed the Angels, Lilah ran to wesley's Apartment to make sure his was alright. You can see her distress and a bit of desperation, and how does Wesley pay her?, he breaks up with her with a stupid reason but she knew that it's was for Fred and he indeed went on to pursued Fred.
Sure he rescued Lilah from the beast only to abandoned her in the sewers and cleans his hands off of her. I believe if Wes had opened up himself to a new love, to Lilah whom i believe was turning the corner for him and would had joined his side, he could had saved her. He could had taken her to his apartment instead of leaving her in the sewers.

You know Lilah didn't die in the sewers, right? You talk as if she did. That secret tunnel was Lilah's best shot; The Beast was practically unstoppable and he was specifically going after Wolfram and Hart employees at the time. He wasn't going to quit just because Wes took her home with him, she needed to disappear. And then when she came back, as soon as Jasmine got Lilah alone, she killed her. I don't see how that would have changed if Wesley had still been making the smoochies with her.

Also, much as I like Lilah, I think you're romanticizing her character far too much. She had depth, sure, but she was never a "good guy". And as many shoulda woulda couldas as there may be in regards to her and Wesley, she was still a W&H employee first and foremost.
During her relationship with Wes, she tried to get Conner and Cordy kidnapped and had Lorne brain sucked... so, can hardly blame Wesley for being apprehensive. And right after, she was going to try and make a deal with The Beast... right before it turned the place into a slaughter house.
Ultimately, Lilah lived by the sword and she died by the sword. Just like Lindsey, Gavin, Holland etc.

 

[bespangeled]

I think they all lived by the sword. I like Lilah because she's really a hard bitch - there's no compromising, she knows what she wants. Neither she nor Wesley start out looking for connection, but connection happens. While I think the romance between Fred and Wes is sweet and tragic, I don't think he loved Fred alone - he was as much in love with his image of her on the pedestal (loved her before he met her). Wesley and Lilah really knew each other, and it was obvious that Wesley cared for her. The conversation between them as he is cutting her dead body (and we wonder why people think Buffy fans are touched) is brilliant.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

The conversation between them as he is cutting her dead body (and we wonder why people think Buffy fans are touched) is brilliant.

I think his breaking into the bowels of W&H to 'free' her from her contract was good as well. To see the look on his face when he saw it had returned to the filing cabinet.

 

[bespangeled]

I think his breaking into the bowels of W&H to 'free' her from her contract was good as well. To see the look on his face when he saw it had returned to the filing cabinet.

He loved her - and he was ashamed, and Lilah knew it. Damn, I wish they had kept her on!

 

[VisionBoy]

I always assumed that Eve was introduced in s5 because Stephanie Romanov wasn't available. I don't know if that actually was the case or not. But seriously, if it wasn't....What the hell guys? Lilah as a main character in season 5 would have been great.

 

[jom]

Okay, I guess I can understand your persepective now... but honestly, I think your making some massive leaps here to get to Wesley being to blame for her getting killed.
They both had issues the size of Texas and there were certainly times when they both could have treated each other a lot better, but I'm still not getting how you get from Wesley dumping her to Jasmine sticking a knife in her neck.



You know Lilah didn't die in the sewers, right? You talk as if she did. That secret tunnel was Lilah's best shot; The Beast was practically unstoppable and he was specifically going after Wolfram and Hart employees at the time. He wasn't going to quit just because Wes took her home with him, she needed to disappear. And then when she came back, as soon as Jasmine got Lilah alone, she killed her. I don't see how that would have changed if Wesley had still been making the smoochies with her.

Also, much as I like Lilah, I think you're romanticizing her character far too much. She had depth, sure, but she was never a "good guy". And as many shoulda woulda couldas as there may be in regards to her and Wesley, she was still a W&H employee first and foremost.
During her relationship with Wes, she tried to get Conner and Cordy kidnapped and had Lorne brain sucked... so, can hardly blame Wesley for being apprehensive. And right after, she was going to try and make a deal with The Beast... right before it turned the place into a slaughter house.
Ultimately, Lilah lived by the sword and she died by the sword. Just like Lindsey, Gavin, Holland etc.

Im making massive leaps here?. Im trying to save wesley here. If Wes had moved on from Fred and given a good chance to Lilah, he would had taken her to his apartment and spent a good time there nursing her loving her. The beast was not necessarily going after WR&H employees, he was going after the power of Mesektet. Now maybe the beast didnt know where Mesektet was and decided to go floor by floor eliminating everything in its path or just decided to take down WR&H as bonus but it was Mesektet that it wanted.

Im romanticizing Lilah?, did you see her face when the dumbo wesley was breaking up with her?. From a woman that tried to show confidence all the time, she looked and acted like a high school girl desperate and trying to keep her man even humiliating herself by offering up dressing up like Fred. You could see the sadness and lost in her face. She worked for WR&H And yes she did some evil stuff but remember this is the Angel series, there's nothing you can do that you cannot comeback from. Yes she went after Lorne and she told wesley that she kept him alive for him. I think most of things she did was because it was her job not because she enjoyed it particulary. Angel was the CEO of WR&H and he and the troops did some pretty gray and dark gray walking themselves. Angel and his guys sometimes were not trying to stop evil, just slow it down or make it less evil. As a said, this is the Angel series, good and evil are pretty murky, now gray, that's where the series shined most.

Believe me, im not trying to down Wesley much, im trying save him because saving Lilah, might save wes, epecially if he was giving himself a chance into loving her.

bespangeled: Weslah! They challenged each other - and the sex was hot!

You know that we are in this together, your post are very appreciated Weslah

 

[Silverspike]

I always assumed that Eve was introduced in s5 because Stephanie Romanov wasn't available. I don't know if that actually was the case or not. But seriously, if it wasn't....What the hell guys? Lilah as a main character in season 5 would have been great.

Rumor had it that the powers that be thought she was too old to be 'sex symbol' for the series and thats why the (imo) dreadful Eve was brought in.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Eve was hot though.. but Eve was necessary in the fact that I cannot imagine Lilah doing the hibbity dibbity with, or even conspiring with, Lindsey. And that was a rather large part of the storyline for that character.

 

[VisionBoy]

Believe me, im not trying to down Wesley much, im trying save him because saving Lilah, might save wes, epecially if he was giving himself a chance into loving her.

I still don't understand your original comment implying that Wesley was responsible for her death... and now you're saying that if she hadn't died, he wouldn't have? Or when you say "saved" do you mean like saved his heart/soul?
I totally agree that Angel did gray area well, but Lilah was hardly gray. Brain sucking an innocent person and not killing them is not morally gray, it's just not quite as evil as it could be.

You seem to have gotten the impression that I don't think Lilah actually cared for Wes. I never said that. I think she absolutely did. I'm not trying to minimize what was between them, I just still don't understand how you think it could have saved her life if they were still seeing each other.

And I do like Lilah, I think she's an awesome character. But dude, she was straight up evil! She was ruthless and showed no remorse. Caring for Wesley doesn't cancel all that out. She never sought to redeem herself, she made no bones about where her loyalties lay. She was evil and she owned it. That's what I mean when I say I think you're romanticizing her.

The beast was not necessarily going after WR&H employees, he was going after the power of Mesektet. Now maybe the beast didnt know where Mesektet was and decided to go floor by floor eliminating everything in its path or just decided to take down WR&H as bonus but it was Mesektet that it wanted.

Actually Lilah said the Beast even killed people who were off work sick. Add that to Jasmine killing Lilah as soon as she got her alone; it definitely seems they wanted every bit of the LA branch dead.

 

[bespangeled]

The fact that Lilah was unashamedly self interested was part of her charm, and part of what Wesley needed. I suspect that without her he would still be eating microwave dinners alone. They challenged each other, drew sparks from each other. Not all love is romance - what they had was gritty and complex.

 

[jom]

The fact that Lilah was unashamedly self interested was part of her charm, and part of what Wesley needed. I suspect that without her he would still be eating microwave dinners alone. They challenged each other, drew sparks from each other. Not all love is romance - what they had was gritty and complex.

Complex i agree but i also would say that she was pretty taken with him. She was following him to the university, giving him gifts, she was acting like the girlfriend in love, she really wanted to make him happy, dressing up like Fred? Come on now

 

[bespangeled]

Complex i agree but i also would say that she was pretty taken with him. She was following him to the university, giving him gifts, she was acting like the girlfriend in love, she really wanted to make him happy, dressing up like Fred? Come on now

Dressing up like Fred was freakin hot - and I loved the way Wesley told her to keep the glasses on. I think it showed confidence enough to say ' I know how you feel about her and I know I can compete.' Fred might be the romantic ideal on the pedestal but Lilah was the one who shared his bed, and who gave at least as good as she got. Yeah, there was romance there, and growing affection, and deeply hidden love.

 

[jom]

Dressing up like Fred was freakin hot - and I loved the way Wesley told her to keep the glasses on. I think it showed confidence enough to say ' I know how you feel about her and I know I can compete.' Fred might be the romantic ideal on the pedestal but Lilah was the one who shared his bed, and who gave at least as good as she got. Yeah, there was romance there, and growing affection, and deeply hidden love.

agree 100%. I know that i critique wesley over Fred but that love was a big part of his story, and i wonder if he had overcome that love maybe things would not had gone so tragic 

I still don't understand your original comment implying that Wesley was responsible for her death... and now you're saying that if she hadn't died, he wouldn't have? Or when you say "saved" do you mean like saved his heart/soul?
I totally agree that Angel did gray area well, but Lilah was hardly gray. Brain sucking an innocent person and not killing them is not morally gray, it's just not quite as evil as it could be.

You seem to have gotten the impression that I don't think Lilah actually cared for Wes. I never said that. I think she absolutely did. I'm not trying to minimize what was between them, I just still don't understand how you think it could have saved her life if they were still seeing each other.

And I do like Lilah, I think she's an awesome character. But dude, she was straight up evil! She was ruthless and showed no remorse. Caring for Wesley doesn't cancel all that out. She never sought to redeem herself, she made no bones about where her loyalties lay. She was evil and she owned it. That's what I mean when I say I think you're romanticizing her.

Just go back and read my previous posts on this threads to answer your questions, i dont want to repeat myself anymore. And Lilah was Evil? Angel is evil to the maximun so is Spike, and dont mess with wesley's stuff or he'll put a bullet in you

Actually Lilah said the Beast even killed people who were off work sick. Add that to Jasmine killing Lilah as soon as she got her alone; it definitely seems they wanted every bit of the LA branch dead.

Now this is new information. I dont recall Lilah saying this but if she did then maybe Jasmine or the beast might had had hunted Lilah down to Wesley's apartment. they did leave her alone in the sewers thou.

 

[bespangeled]

Fred was his ideal - everything he had grown up wanting in a wife - she was beautiful, charming, funny and brilliant. But when someone says I loved you before I knew you that's a danger sign. Of course, exemption for impending tragic death. Poor Wesley - I can't say how much I just hurt for him!