Bullying - Online and In life in General

[captain peroxide]

Er,which comments were those?If it was one of mine,i apologise to yah love🙂

 

[Silum]

Ok, those of you who are throwing comments out there like "holier than thou" and "I guess we weren't all raised right" directed towards my post can stop right there. There's no need to start throwing jabs because I said that's how I was raised.

My point was never that you have a 'holier than thou' attitude, only that stating how you always strive to 'do unto others' is an irrelivant point if its human emotion that is the driving force. In fact, it was never about you, it was about the point you made.

In fact, i think i'll go into it a bit more before i'm pulled into some BS argument i don't want to be a part of..Reread my post... my 'holier than thou' comment was directed at the statement... ie, someone can claim to be perfect, brilliant, well raised whatever, but thats not the issue, its that people can suck, without being a bully.

Of course we are ALL guilty of saying something in the heat of the moment that might be misconstrued as bullying or being overly mean. But you know what? If that happens, you also have the opportunity to come back after you've cooled off and appologize for being too blunt. Just saying...

Ah, so you did understand.

Flannen agrees: Totally agree. The 'holier than thou' and 'self righteous' comments are uncessary and unfair.

Oh well... I don't suppose you understood my point either.

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

Flannen agrees: That wasn't a specific reference to you.

Ok, but aside from Al who posted ages back, im the only one to mention 'Holier than thou' attitudes. I don't see anyone acting self righteous either.

 

[Buffy Summers]

People have suggested that online bullying is not as bad because it's easier to walk away from. I'd like to suggest that it's also easier to prevent yourself from making comments in anger. Before you hit submit on that post calling someone else an asshole because they don't agree with you, take a break, and come back later, and see if you really think you should post it.

🙂

 

[Flannen]

Ok, but aside from Al who posted ages back, im the only one to mention 'Holier than thou' attitudes. I don't see anyone acting self righteous either.

Honestly Si, if I had a problem with you and what you said in particular I would have taken it up with you. You're right you are one of the only ones who has used those turns of phrase, but it's also an overall kind of impression I've got from some posts, and I may well be wrong to have interpreted them in that way.

But I'm generally sticking out of this thread now anyway, I've said what I wanted to say and don't wish to get drawn into just repeating myself.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Just so we're clear, I have not used the term 'holier than thou' so any issue with that phrase you have, you have with the person who used it (note: I have no issue with it).

Honestly Si, if I had a problem with you and what you said in particular I would have taken it up with you.

Would you? Interesting.

---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------

Flannen agrees: Yes, I would. Any particular reason why you seem surprised?

Just interesting .

 

[Brandon]

Damn.. this thread is exhausting... Can't we all just get along?

*forces everyone to hold hands and sing Coumbaya!*

 

[Silum]

Lol, searching for a stupid kumbaya image, I like how i come across a sign ironically with bullet holes strewn across it. 😛

Anyway, I think this was probably a healthy thread if anything (maybe not, i dunno).

...Btw, I wanna point out that I'm certainly not one of the people here insinuating the internet doesn't mean anything. I think the internet probably has far more bullying than anywhere else for reasons I stated earlier, and its effects are JUST as damaging. And although I do think people need to 'toughen up' on the light stuff, there is obviously the other side of the coin where (and this month has shown us) bullying can't be accepted.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Apart from bullying on the net being subtle. The net also holds the problem is that you can't always gauge feelings on the screen, it can sometimes come across sharp or nasty when people are just giving their point of view. How many of us have had emails that we have taken the wrong way because we can't see or feel the emtion. A lot of sensitive and shy people join forums to be someone they can't be in real life, problem is that they are still sensitive and can't take honest answers.

 

[Revolver]

I hate bullies. In Middle School, I used to be able to pick out a bully on sight. I had bullydar, which never caught on because the name isn't catchy. Anyway, you can always tell a bully when you see one. You know, what with their awkward looks, band equipment, and suspenders. So I would preemptively beat up the bullies and steal their lunch money to teach them lessons. Stupid bullies.

 

[Silum]

captain peroxide agrees: Si,is dat u?

haha, nah, that dude would kick my a$$

 

[Schillaci]

Can the persons who brought it up, elaborate on this notion of subtle bullying. To me, it looks like reframing the notion of bullying to subvert the definition that we had attempted to establish on what a Bully, and bullying is. I just don't see how bullying and subtlety mix, with what I thought we had established, and the definition of these two words. Subtelty as is its nature, is difficult to discern, which leads to much confusion, and complications, and ultimately becomes within this context, very subjective.

It is this sort of thinking that leads to witch hunts, and redifines bullying ultimately into anything you disagree with, where you subjectively assume intent. There's much more I can include but,in the interest in keeping my posts short enough that they will be read.

I will submit just one final caveat: Unless I am mistaken, which I very possibly might be, which is why I would like some elucidation on the phrase. This 'subtle bullying' hinges on some perhaps misguided perception, which is subjective, often arrogant, and biased based on the persons involved, the topic, personal experience, etc and basically completely surrenders truth in favour of favour where the accused is actually the bullied, because the first thing thrown out the window with subjectivity, is truth.

 

[captain peroxide]

I feel the word "Bullying" can be misleading,but in general entails one person picking on another,sometimes ending to violence,or calling names.
Online its simply"I dont like him or her,so i'm gonna get some friends and start spreading rumours about them.
A friend told me of an experience he had a few years ago,where ten members of a forum completely ignored his posts,sent messeges to him that were encrypted so only he understood them(Dont ask me?).
These people had their own little click,and he was breaking it up by just posting his opinion.
Some people just dont like change.
Its easy to rub someone up the wrong way online,and i too
have probably said something that came out wrong,its not
anyones fault but mine.Only I have the ability to say what i say in my post's,so its up to me to try to be clear in my intentions.
In my opinion Bullying is making your intentions and predjudices
against another known,and showing how you feel about them,not caring if it hurts them.

Not saying i'm right,just me thought on it🙂

 

[Washburne]

For me the difference between bullying and being a jerk/saying something hurtful (that's not always on purpose and can be done by anyone) is that bullying is either something that happens repeatedly or when more than one person gets together to pick on one or more persons about the same thing even if none of them do it very often. So to encourage a certain (bad) behavior against someone would in my eyes be a form of bullying. You might not do the bullying yourself but you influence others. I've seen that behavior too many times and I'm so tired of it. "But I didn't do the bullying." A clever way to get things done without taking responsibility for it.

Can ignoring people be bullying? I say it depends on the situation and it's extremly difficult to be certain. But to on purpose ignore certain people to me is bullying. The difficult thing is of course to show that the action or if it should be called none action is intended. Not like you talk or hang out with everyone. But backturning and actively avoiding to talk to someone even if the person is trying to get contact would be bullying in my eyes.

As for the line between people needing to be tough and be able to take some things and to show respect towards others it's never the same with people. Some things you got an easier time to take and sometimes it even depends on who's saying it. No you shouldn't have to be extra super careful all the time just in case something you say will be taken the wrong way. But to look for what kind of responce it gets and from that make the decision on how to take it from there. If you notice that what you did/said hurt someone do you care enough to ask for forgiveness or at least try and not to do it again? Or will you just think "They need to toughen up. I'll behave any way I want."?

For you that have been bullied and have managed to stand up for yourself or in some way been able to handle/take care of the problem I'm happy for you. But sometimes it feels like some of those people (in general) have the "Since I managed to do something about it so should everyone else" philosofy. And that if they can't handle the situation they can only blame themselves. And that I'm not a fan of. Yes, some people will be able to stand up to their bullies if the get the right push or encouragement but it's not as easy as it works for everyone. So what should we do for them? For me the answer is simple. We should try and help them in another way. But I get the feeling that some think that since they're not able to help themselves they deserve the treatment they get.

And once again I want to point out that it's just a feeling I get and feelings can be wrong. Just trying to put my feelings into words.

 

[Buffy Summers]

No you shouldn't have to be extra super careful all the time just in case something you say will be taken the wrong way. But to look for what kind of responce it gets and from that make the decision on how to take it from there. If you notice that what you did/said hurt someone do you care enough to ask for forgiveness or at least try and not to do it again? Or will you just think "They need to toughen up. I'll behave any way I want."?

I think this is an important point. There's something to be said for admitting when you've done something wrong. Everyone makes mistakes, but there's a difference between those who own up to them and those who don't.

 

[captain peroxide]

For me the difference between bullying and being a jerk/saying something hurtful (that's not always on purpose and can be done by anyone) is that bullying is either something that happens repeatedly or when more than one person gets together to pick on one or more persons about the same thing even if none of them do it very often. So to encourage a certain (bad) behavior against someone would in my eyes be a form of bullying. You might not do the bullying yourself but you influence others. I've seen that behavior too many times and I'm so tired of it. "But I didn't do the bullying." A clever way to get things done without taking responsibility for it.

I agree🙂

Can ignoring people be bullying? I say it depends on the situation and it's extremly difficult to be certain. But to on purpose ignore certain people to me is bullying. The difficult thing is of course to show that the action or if it should be called none action is intended. Not like you talk or hang out with everyone. But backturning and actively avoiding to talk to someone even if the person is trying to get contact would be bullying in my eyes.

Yes it is Bullying,it
was enough for him to leave


As for the line between people needing to be tough and be able to take some things and to show respect towards others it's never the same with people. Some things you got an easier time to take and sometimes it even depends on who's saying it. No you shouldn't have to be extra super careful all the time just in case something you say will be taken the wrong way. But to look for what kind of responce it gets and from that make the decision on how to take it from there. If you notice that what you did/said hurt someone do you care enough to ask for forgiveness or at least try and not to do it again? Or will you just think "They need to toughen up. I'll behave any way I want."?

If i say something,its unintentional,i'm not built that way🙂
If you look at a lot of my post's,i apologise way too much,as a lot of the time i haven't said anything wrong.
Perhaps i'm making a mountain out of a molehill,maybe need to relax a bit.

For you that have been bullied and have managed to stand up for yourself or in some way been able to handle/take care of the problem I'm happy for you. But sometimes it feels like some of those people (in general) have the "Since I managed to do something about it so should everyone else" philosofy.

Not sure you mean me here,but your right they do.

And once again I want to point out that it's just a feeling I get and feelings can be wrong. Just trying to put my feelings into words.

Wise words🙂
The problem with the internet,and with forums in particular,is you cant really tell what the other is thinking,therein lies the
problem.
This place is,i feel,a very safe,kind,friendly:grouphug:
family,enviroment,its home from home,and i truely believe everybody feels the same.
Sorry,had some good,positive,news today,bit chirpy for once hahaha

 

[Schillaci]

No you shouldn't have to be extra super careful all the time just in case something you say will be taken the wrong way. But to look for what kind of responce it gets and from that make the decision on how to take it from there. If you notice that what you did/said hurt someone do you care enough to ask for forgiveness or at least try and not to do it again? Or will you just think "They need to toughen up. I'll behave any way I want."?

There are more than two options in that scenario. Lots more. The two that you've suggested are near to the extreme end of the spectrum, particularly asking for forgiveness, thats pretty much as extreme and pathetic as it gets... Asking forgiveness for something that had no hurtful intent but happened to cause 'hurt', is not how anybody should deal with that sort of situation. Seriously, think about it.

Explaining your position, and discussing why that person was affected is one of many better ways on how you deal with a situation like that. And mostly always it is personal issues that you have no knowledge of. There is no need to be forgiven. As for the "toughen up" response... I don't deny that everybody has problems, and they're personal to them and because of this these problems seem huge. Compared to what some people on this planet go through... and seom descriptions of how people were 'bullied'. Toughen up is the polite way I would express how some people need to be.

I think this is an important point. There's something to be said for admitting when you've done something wrong. Everyone makes mistakes, but there's a difference between those who own up to them and those who don't.

There sure is.

Anyway, still no response on the explanation of 'subtle bullying'? Who brought that up?

 

[Buffy Summers]

Explaining your position, and discussing why that person was affected is one of many better ways on how you deal with a situation like that. And mostly always it is personal issues that you have no knowledge of. There is no need to be forgiven.

That's like saying it's the other person't fault that you were a dick to them. Guess what? If you say something hurtful to a person, it is your fault and yeah you should ask to be forgiven.

I think you're getting too bogged down in trying to explain away situations where someone might have overreacted and applying that to ALL situations. People don't always say things are bullying that aren't. Sometimes, it is bullying.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Anyway, still no response on the explanation of 'subtle bullying'? Who brought that up?

I think It was me who put forward the pharse 'subtle bullying'. I agree with you on a lot of points, especially where you say you can claim or misconstrue anything as bullying especially if there is friction between two people or someone is over sensitive, which happens to all of at one time or another. But for example, the bullying is being done by one person to another (not group bullying obviously, I think we can agree that that does occur). It is done in such a way that only the recipient feels it even in a crowded or open area (classroom or workplace). The bully then keeps nudging the other in the ribs, tread literally on their toes, infact anything that can cause pain without being seen and ifthe victim is shy or quiet they will not say anything for fear of reprisals. Another scenario, when someone whispers nasty words in to someone like 'bitch', 'your mother's a slut' or 'I'm gonna get you'.
Is that open or subtle?

Either way I respect your views and I think we can agree to differ.:happy53:

As already mentioned in this thread, this place feels good and safe for old and young alike, it is one of the best forums I've seen.

 

[Schillaci]

That's like saying it's the other person't fault that you were a dick to them. Guess what? If you say something hurtful to a person, it is your fault and yeah you should ask to be forgiven.

That isn't what I was talking about, if that is what kinslayer was talking about then I misunderstood him, but I don't see how that could be what he was referring to. I was understanding it as you're in a group, one person is talking and something is brought it which is not directed at the 'victim' in person, and has no malicious intent to it. And the person becomes upset at it.

I think you're getting too bogged down in trying to explain away situations where someone might have overreacted and applying that to ALL situations. People don't always say things are bullying that aren't. Sometimes, it is bullying.

No, I've seen bullying. I know it happens, and compared to some of the experiences I know about, lots of peoples stories of bullying are, patheticly dramaqueenesque. Which frankly in todays standards of what bullying is, we're all bullies.

---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 AM ----------

I think It was me who put forward the pharse 'subtle bullying'. I agree with you on a lot of points, especially where you say you can claim or misconstrue anything as bullying especially if there is friction between two people or someone is over sensitive, which happens to all of at one time or another. But for example, the bullying is being done by one person to another (not group bullying obviously, I think we can agree that that does occur). It is done in such a way that only the recipient feels it even in a crowded or open area (classroom or workplace). The bully then keeps nudging the other in the ribs, tread literally on their toes, infact anything that can cause pain without being seen and ifthe victim is shy or quiet they will not say anything for fear of reprisals. Another scenario, when someone whispers nasty words in to someone like 'bitch', 'your mother's a slut' or 'I'm gonna get you'.
Is that open or subtle?

Either way I respect your views and I think we can agree to differ.:happy53:

As already mentioned in this thread, this place feels good and safe for old and young alike, it is one of the best forums I've seen.

You were referring to the internet when you mentioned subtle bullying.

 

[EWR]

Dude, you're really coming across as though you're hacked off about something that has obviously gone on. And the easiest way to deal with it is via PM, rather than continuing in a thread where you accept but disagree with member's ideas. This is a circle and we can go round and round all day long, but we'll be covering the same ground.

You asked for people's opinions. You got people's opinions. If you're looking for a way to justify or clarify the term bullying you might as well start writing a book. As you've just said todays standards of a bully is different. In the past it was the kid who stole your lunch money, nowadays people can be bullying verbally and virtually.

Speaking of internet Bullying. Just this week in the UK, a girl was imprisioned for a death-threat of another girl as her facebook status.