Bullying - Online and In life in General

[Schillaci]

Since this appears to be a big problem here, I thought maybe it might be a good idea to get a dialogue going about bullying. Why it occurs? Is there a pattern between 'victims' and culprits? The difference between online bullying, and bullying in life. How to fix it, etc, because removing a bully, doesn't remove bullying. And hundreds of other questions. Lets hear some opinions.

This might be relevant at some point, as there are lots of new members, and looking around I see few members that were here when I first rode into town.

I was accused on this site of being a bully. I don't want this topic to be about me, so I don't intend to go into any detail about myself. All I will say is, perspective is everything, and majority simply means more people believe opinion 1, than people who believe opinion 2.

Anyway, have at it. Lets hear some ideas, questions, opinions.

 

[Washburne]

Could become a good thread as long as people handle it. I'm too tired though to share a lot of my feelings.

So for now I'll just agree that of course it's a matter about perspective. It's incredibly rare that bullies think that they bully someone. They might call it a lot of other things but rarely use the word bullying.

And as for the difference between online bullying and real life bullying of course there's a big difference since you in the online one can be way more anonymous. Which often make people feel more secure (or at least less afraid) and that makes it easier to act "tough" since you don't have to deal with consequences in the same way.

 

[white avenger]

About 18 months ago here in Georgia, there was a 16 year old girl who hanged herself because someone in a chat room had called her a "fat whore." Sn extreme example? Certainly. Was the girl emotionally disturbed, even dangerously unstable, beforehand? Quite possibly. And both of those factors almost certainly contributed to her suicide. The catalyst, though, was two words: "Fat," and "Whore." That cost a young girl her life.

 

[Silum]

Good Question. I think the two, online and in real life are very very different, though they have the exact same result in a lot of situations. I think the problem is more rabid online (take the recent thread i started on 'Hate and ignorance on youtube' a while back, some pretty interesting discussion on what motivates people online. In the real world, bullies can take on the physical as well. I would be quick to calls these people the scum of the earth...but its not really like that, its normally about their own lack of confidence, or their own problems they are trying to deal with...obviously its no excuse, but no-one in their right mind rationally takes pleasure from others pain.

I'm sure there are some pretty decent and academic articles on this subject, but it seems online people fail to hold themselves back like they do in the real world. Anonymity gives you the right to be a jerk and even be nasty. But at the same time, I think most who spend time online like to hold themselves accountable to their own reputation. It's why forums and things usually work when bullying is not accepted. So that said, bullying may take place in a environment like this, but it never lasts, people just don't let it.

I was accused on this site of being a bully. I don't want this topic to be about me, so I don't intend to go into any detail about myself. All I will say is, perspective is everything, and majority simply means more people believe opinion 1, than people who believe opinion 2.

I think there is a huge difference between bullying and arguing; and that people love to throw the word bullying because they don't have another word for it. Calling someone 'fat whore' is clearly a bully, but someone yelling at someone or saying something hurtful in the heat of an argument isn't bullying, its not to be condoned either, but it's a product of having human emotion and getting agitated, especially if you are rightfully agitated! ..People argue, even get pissed off at each other in real life...but you would never consider that bullying.

I think the real key comes in identifying bullies and getting rid of them asap, because its a character thing...bullies take pleasure in speaking misery in others, it just gets more complicated when you're online because intent can't really be explained a lot of time, especially when things are blurry. Just because someones angry with someone, doesn't mean they are a 'bully'. I find i'm quite ideally placed on this one, as I too have been accused of bullying...once with LookingGlass (one only needs to see our friendship on that one), and another is getting banned for yelling at BS. In the latter, I was out of line (though certainly not bullying, I was just fed up), but in general I don't think one can exclude both 'premeditation' and 'intent to disrespect' from the bully-equation. Granted it's not acceptable on a forum to be yelling at each other and so you need to control/ban that, but being called a 'bully' is imo a low blow, it's like a comeback, only this time, your disrespecting someones character.

Things are complicated, life isn't black and white, bullying when it is bullying sucks.

 

[Fridizh]

About 18 months ago here in Georgia, there was a 16 year old girl who hanged herself because someone in a chat room had called her a "fat whore." Sn extreme example? Certainly. Was the girl emotionally disturbed, even dangerously unstable, beforehand? Quite possibly. And both of those factors almost certainly contributed to her suicide. The catalyst, though, was two words: "Fat," and "Whore." That cost a young girl her life.

That's sad. Poor girl and her family 🙁 It's tragic, and in a sad way, kind of understandable.

I mean, we live in a society where many people live their lives in front of a computer, myself included. I log on almost everyday, to chat to my friends, read my mail, the newspaper.. and the hours just seems to disappear. And I also know for a fact that when I was bullied in real life, I started to "live" my life in front of the computer. Why? Well, I got friends and people who were nice to me and did not treat me as the people who bullied me did. So I know that you can take what people say online, or in real life, really personal.

I'm tired, so I don't know If I'm contributing anything to this subject but.. bullying is never okay, wheather it's online or real life. Because you never know how the person who get's bullied reacts/feel because of it. :/

 

[Buffy Summers]

Calling someone 'fat whore' is clearly a bully, but someone yelling at someone or saying something hurtful in the heat of an argument isn't bullying, its not to be condoned either, but it's a product of having human emotion and getting agitated, especially if you are rightfully agitated! ..People argue, even get pissed off at each other in real life...but you would never consider that bullying.

There are ways to argue that don't involve making comments about the other person. It crosses the line into bullying, though, when people are afraid to post/give their ideas because of how someone else is going to treat them for it.

 

[Crashing Doors]

I was fortunate to never have been bullied, even though I probably fit the stereotypical Bully's Target, but I have most certainly witnessed people being bullied. Watching someone get picked on and not doing anything about it makes me feel just as awful, I imagine, as it would be to be bullied.

The thing is, we don't want to put ourselves into that situation if the bully isn't targeting us--even though we probably should step in. Reminds me of a Friends episode in which Ross and Chandler get booted out of their favorite spot in Central Perk. If I remember correctly, Chandler's hat gets stolen and Ross doesn't really do anything about it; when the bullies leave, Chandler looks at Ross and asks why he didn't do anything.

Just my personal observation, bullies tend to either be spoiled rich priveleged brats, druggies, etc. It's hard to profile them though because I've seen them in all shapes and sizes.

I'd like to hear more input on this though, because it's quite insane that bullying still occurs. How do bullies even keep friends? How do teachers or parents not put an end to it? I'd be interested in any kind of insight into those types of questions.

 

[Flannen]

I was bullied a lot when I was younger, lead me to grow in to a defensive, mouthy teenager who didn't trust anybody. Thankfully, I met my boyfriend at 15 years old, and he came with a group of amazing friends who set me on the right road. 🙂

Largely because of my own experiences, I absolutely hate bullying. Every form of it disgusts me, online, real life, all of it. It is my pet hate and it both angers and upsets me greatly. When I was in my later years of high school and 6th form, I often helped out younger kids if I saw them being tormented/bulliec because it really does break my heart.

It's a really difficult thing to deal with, but I don't think that means people shouldn't try. Schools might have changed in the last few years since I was there, but they're pretty rubbish when it comes to dealing with bullying. But, it's something that will not be tolerated when I'm teaching, I intend to do my utmost to tackle and prevent it.

And I agree with Buffy. Bullying and arguing are not entirely different. People with no incentive for bullying, people who do not wish to make other people feel bad or small of for their opinions, tend to think about how they discuss something with others. Losing your temper and name calling, no matter how heated you are, never makes another person feel good, I'd say it makes them feel insecure and stupid; much like bullying does.

 

[JCC]

I'm a total asshole online and I'm not in real life; I think it's because you can't see people's puppy dog eyes and hurt expressions. Sounds mean, but it's true, textual communication makes people a lot more comfortable about being vicious.

 

[Flannen]

I'm a total asshole online and I'm not in real life; I think it's because you can't see people's puppy dog eyes and hurt expressions. Sounds mean, but it's true, textual communication makes people a lot more comfortable about being vicious.

I apologise in advance if this post is a bit blunt. But I'm a blunt person and this is a topic I feel strongly about.

Forgive me for this, I don't think there's anyway I can say this without it being mildly offending, but surely, to be a conscious 'ass' online, you're hardly a Samaritan in real life. But I guess that depends on whether you are your true self on the internet or put up a facade in order to gain resepct, or cause controversy, or I don't know what, to be honest, cos it's seem s totally pointless.

And just because 'textual communication' makes some people feel that they can hurt people, does not mean you can or should go around doing it.

And, I'm sorry, but the tone and turn of phrase you use here; 'puppy dog eyes' etc suggests to me, you like/don't mind, upsetting people online...and I just don't get that.

Again, I'm sorry if I've been too blunt.

 

[Crashing Doors]

I'm a total asshole online and I'm not in real life; I think it's because you can't see people's puppy dog eyes and hurt expressions. Sounds mean, but it's true, textual communication makes people a lot more comfortable about being vicious.

Eh even that doesn't sit well with me. If you look to the internet to be a total asshole, there must be a part of yourself that loves being an asshole--at least that's what your statement implies.

Maybe online bullies bully because, in real life, they're too afraid of some aspect of real life bullying, but they still have that desire to hurt people or belittle others. Whether it's some Freudian reason, bitterness for example, or anything else, it still doesn't justify the behavior. You can, but you shouldn't.

 

[nthn]

As the years go on, people are becoming increasingly touchy as to where text is hurting them instead of spoken words.

 

[Flannen]

As the years go on, people are becoming increasingly touchy as to where text is hurting them instead of spoken words.

I have to disagree here.

I think its actually more about a decrease in the consideration of people's feelings. People are over-stepping boundaries, breaking taboos and basically becoming more and more disgusting in the way they treat people. What is increasing, is people thinking they have the right to mistreat people and instead of recognising that they've hurt someone, they'll defend their actions down to the ground.

Oh, and not forgetting the increasing number of misunderstandings about the 'freedom of speech.'

 

[nthn]

It takes two.
Yes, people are exactly what you said (more and more disgusting in the way they treat people.), but the kids who're committing suicide because of what is said over the internet proves that people are becoming increasingly touchy.

 

[Flannen]

It takes two.
Yes, people are exactly what you said (more and more disgusting in the way they treat people.), but the kids who're committing suicide because of what is said over the internet proves that people are becoming increasingly touchy.

I think that's a very easy thing to say if you have never experienced how it feels to be bullied, or can distance yourself from it. However, I really don't think anyone is in a position to stand and call someone 'touchy' for taking their own life when you haven't been the one who has been subjected to torment, emotional/physical abuse and harassment for absolutely no reason at all. Unless you count making yourself feel better?

It seems to me that some people underestimate bullying, and maybe think that because you hear about it in relation to schools so often, that for some people it isn't a big deal?

 

[Crashing Doors]

"friends thru fear? or that if your a bullys mate and join in, it wont get turned round on you?"

Not quite sure what you're asking. When I was referring to the "Friends" episode, I used that to emphasize the fact that if your buddy is being bullied, you might not step in because you're afraid of the bullying getting turned around on you. Heck, even in "Superbad" this happens. The Jonah Hill character gets spit on and made fun of, while his friend (the Michael Cera character) just starnds back and doesn't stick up for his friend. Then as they walk aawy from the bullies, Jonah asks why Michael did nothing. It's kind of sad, but there's a lot of fear in being bullied. Being tormented is one thing, but "bringing" on the torment by getting involved is another.

 

[nthn]

I think that's a very easy thing to say if you have never experienced how it feels to be bullied, or can distance yourself from it. However, I really don't think anyone is in a position to stand and call someone 'touchy' for taking their own life when you haven't been the one who has been subjected to torment, emotional/physical abuse and harassment for absolutely no reason at all. Unless you count making yourself feel better?

It seems to me that some people underestimate bullying, and maybe think that because you hear about it in relation to schools so often, that for some people it isn't a big deal?

I have been bullied, but actually bullying, you know the type where it's face to face and where you don't have the luxury of turning the computer off and walking away.

Maybe I can't honestly take internet bullying all too seriously, because of the actual torment I've endured, but it just seems to me that the younger people are, the more deluded they become as to thinking that the internet as an actual life.

I'm sorry if you disagree with me on this, but I'm just talking from my experiences with people who've committed suicide because of frivolous things said and done over the internet.

 

[captain peroxide]

Lets stop the pain................

Just gonna step in here,as i have something to say about this.
I have been bullied my whole life,because i'm too nice,too shy,too easy to push around.Well,just talking to you all about this is intimidating,and it has took alot for me to do this so please hear me out.
bullies!!!!Hell i dont think the word fits,how about cowards?
This 'Bullying'Whether online,or in the real world,takes more than just peoples self esteem,self confidence,it takes their lives,in more ways than one.
They are all the same,bullies.They think they are better than everyone else.They think they have some GODgiven right to treat people like shit,because they are too fat,too thin,too spotty,or,simply because they are different.It is not their fault in most cases,but it still happens.


I'm sorry for going on(Here i go again,apologising,hey thats just me)but i needed to have my say
Thanks all🙂

Lets end the pain,too many have died already...................

 

[Flannen]

I have been bullied, but actually bullying, you know the type where it's face to face and where you don't have the luxury of turning the computer off and walking away.

Maybe I can't honestly take internet bullying all too seriously, because of the actual torment I've endured, but it just seems to me that the younger people are, the more deluded they become as to thinking that the internet as an actual life.

I'm sorry if you disagree with me on this, but I'm just talking from my experiences with people who've committed suicide because of frivolous things said and done over the internet.

Yes, I do know the type, I've already said in this thread that I have been bullied a lot in the past, so I don't appreciate a tone that implies I don't get that.

And I don't think it's always a case of younger people thinking the Internet is a real place. The Internet is being increasingly used as something alongside 'real' bullying, as you seem to think of it. MSN, MySpace etc, are all being used to continue the bullying into cyberspace. Is that taking it all too literal? Is it deluded to want to remove yourself from incessant attack, not just every single day at school, but in your personal time? In the space you might use to escape the misery of real life when your being bullied?

And when it is in a situation like this, an online community, experiencing bullying from people you have spent a long time getting to know and discussing things with, can be just as upsetting as real life, it isn't something to be flippant about.

I haven't personally had experience with someone who has taken their own life over the Internet, but I could imagine why they might not see any other route? Especially if all you get from people that you might try and talk to about it, is that you're deluded and you should turn off your computer and walk away. If you can do that, if you can just read words and not be hurt, than that's great, but people are not the same. We all deal with these things better than others.

 

[nthn]

There's no reason to be so aggressive to me.
Everything you've said ("I don't appreciate a tone that implies I don't get that.") you assumed I meant it in some kind of slight against you which is completely wrong, I agree with you for the most part (Bullying of any kind is wrong), but there are little differences in opinions.

Also, your passive aggressive assumptions with ("Especially if all you get from people that you might try and talk to about it, is that you're deluded and you should turn off your computer and walk away.") thinking that's how it happened is disgusting, petty and not proving your point at all.