The question Dollhouse posed to us from the offset was whether a soul could be erased or not. Given that Echo has now taken on a persona all of her own where she is a person in her own right that is quite separate from Caroline, should we consider the answer to the question as a resounding yes? Yes you can erase a soul but more importantly it seems you can "grow" a new one?
Question Can You Erase A Soul?
- Thread starter Kean
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Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
I don't think Caroline's been erased so much as set aside. But I think you're right about Echo "growing" a new soul. She's a person--well, she's a lot of people--with her own drive, desires, sense of morality, and everything that you would think goes with a soul. Which begs the question: where did Echo's soul come from? Did she piece it together from all the people in her head? Did it appear out of nowhere?
Did she have a birth metaphor at some point where we could say "There! That's where the soul appeared!"? Cause that would make sense.
Did she have a birth metaphor at some point where we could say "There! That's where the soul appeared!"? Cause that would make sense.
I don't even know if she is "alot of people". I get the impression that the other minds in her head are more like friends than actually being part of who she is. She appears to have access to their knowledge, skills and memories but she, Echo, controls it all and does so to her dictates, wants and needs; not theirs.
Your question is very interesting though. Where did her soul come from? It can't simply be from experience or living. As if she had devolped a moral code all of her own through her experiences because from the very beginning Echo showed signs of having a separate personality and awareness. Or was that just the foundation and Alpha filling her with all those people the real catylst?
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
I think "Echo" is really Caroline with a bunch of other personalities attached. "Echo" has no personality... she's a blank slate, like Sierra or Victor. The personality that now calls itself Echo is really Modified Caroline, even if she doesn't identify as such. Inasmuch as there's any way we can define a "soul," I think Echo has Caroline's.
Josh Raven
Townie
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2009
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Is soul, personality and identity the same things? I'm with Ballard - you can't erase the soul. However you can program people... it's what national identities are all about - pre-programmed cultural identity that tells you who you are.
Caroline and Echo are the same, only Echo is evolved. They even have the same personality... that need to fix things. Only Echo constructed her own identity and literally became the embodiement of her words "You don't have to be what they tell you to be. You can belong to you!" That's why she is so special.
Caroline and Echo are the same, only Echo is evolved. They even have the same personality... that need to fix things. Only Echo constructed her own identity and literally became the embodiement of her words "You don't have to be what they tell you to be. You can belong to you!" That's why she is so special.
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
I think, according to the lore in all of Joss' shows, a being is comprised of two-three parts:
1.) Soul
2.) Memory
3.) Hitchhiker (Demon, Imprint, etc.)
Eliza's character would be:
1.) Echo - Her Soul
2.) Caroline - Her real Memories
3.) Various Imprints - Her Hitchhikers
Similarly Boreanaz' would be:
1.) Liam - His Soul
2.) Angel - His Collective Memories
3.) Angelus - His Demon Hitchhiker
Who and what Echo is was inside of Caroline since she was conceived, it's just received a unique name now, since all of Caroline's memories were stripped away.
1.) Soul
2.) Memory
3.) Hitchhiker (Demon, Imprint, etc.)
Eliza's character would be:
1.) Echo - Her Soul
2.) Caroline - Her real Memories
3.) Various Imprints - Her Hitchhikers
Similarly Boreanaz' would be:
1.) Liam - His Soul
2.) Angel - His Collective Memories
3.) Angelus - His Demon Hitchhiker
Who and what Echo is was inside of Caroline since she was conceived, it's just received a unique name now, since all of Caroline's memories were stripped away.
B
Blondie Bear
That's pretty astute. Nice connections!
white avenger
white avenger
I think that there is some confusion here about what exactly constitutes a soul. Echo has developed access to all of the PERSONALITIES that she has been programmed with over the time of her stay in the Dollhouse, and, in fact, the personality of Echo, and even Caroline, are merely personalities. The soul is something much more than a mere personality, though it would take someone far more eloquent than I even pretend to be to properly explain the difference. Joss uses the concepts of soul and conscience pretty much interchangeably, and that's not a bad comparison for our purposes here. We've never actually seen Echo/Caroline, regardless of what personality that she has been programmed with, do anything evil or cruel (there was that one time with the leather outfit and the whip, but that was kinky, not necessarily cruel), so we really can't judge whether or not her conscience would allow whatever personality she was currently using to do it. Personally, I doubt it. As far as we know, the only really evil, cruel doll was Alpha, and he might very well have been cruel and evil to begin with.
In answer to the original question, though, I guess that it's basically a matter of personal opinion, and my opinion is that the soul is something beyond personality, something that is constant and unalterable. It might become tarnished, but it always remains basically the same, regardless of any outside factor.
In answer to the original question, though, I guess that it's basically a matter of personal opinion, and my opinion is that the soul is something beyond personality, something that is constant and unalterable. It might become tarnished, but it always remains basically the same, regardless of any outside factor.
I don't think that your soul has a personality. I think it is the thing that connects you to god, or a higher being or whatever you believe in. It is not what makes you act the way you do, but what holds your humanity. There is not reason for it to be erased. Therefore, I do not think that it is possible. Fantastic thought though.
I agree. WA explains it very well.
As for Echo, I have my own theory. The dolls's state are described as being in a "blank state" or "child-like". I pretty much threw the blank description out the window and focused on child-like. A child will eventually have a personality but when they are very young their mind is undeveloped. They don't understand the world yet. They need to learn, grow and mature. I think that after Echo kept these personalities, it helped her brain become enhanced and developed way faster than a kid. She already had all of these adult personalities in her, so she would have understood the world in seconds.
😛 I hope that made sense.
I agree. WA explains it very well.
As for Echo, I have my own theory. The dolls's state are described as being in a "blank state" or "child-like". I pretty much threw the blank description out the window and focused on child-like. A child will eventually have a personality but when they are very young their mind is undeveloped. They don't understand the world yet. They need to learn, grow and mature. I think that after Echo kept these personalities, it helped her brain become enhanced and developed way faster than a kid. She already had all of these adult personalities in her, so she would have understood the world in seconds.
😛 I hope that made sense.