Cangel - If they had more time?

[zobothehobo]

So I am one of those who thinks Cangel was forced. I felt like they were great friends and were forced into a romantic relationship because they were two main characters who need a love interest and they were good friends so to the writers it "made sense," but it didn't. I do, however, think that if Cangel had more time to develop, they could have been a great ship. For example, if Connor had not been taken away and they had sort of parented him together as they were doing in the brief time both Cordy and Connor were there, I think a romantic relationship could have grown from that and it would be beautiful. Also, if there was more time maybe after she came back before she went in a mystical coma because of the worst arc ever... or better yet, that worst arc ever was never done, I think they could have had a beautiful romantic relationship growing from friendship. So my question is, do you think Cangel would have been a better ship if they had more time to develop it before the Jasmine thing? Or if they had more time because they had never done the Jasmine thing?

 

[xfivebyfive]

I don't see them as forced but as a natural progression. I saw hints of romance between them long before they said hey look we want them to be a couple. But that's another discussion.

I think they would have been wonderful if they had gotten the chance to actually be together. I think it's easier to write it off since they were never actually together. But if people had seen them in love and as a couple some people (not all) might have a different opinion. Because you would have been able to see how it was there all along and it actually worked. At least thats why I think.

 

[Lyri]

Well, if the coma/Jasmine arc hadn't happened, then Cordy was gonna be the main bad guy of the season. No Beast, no Angelus, as far as I know, just Cordy as the main villian, so taking that into account, no I don't think it could have worked out for them.

In your other scenario, however, I think it could have worked. Raising Connor together, Cordy becoming his surrogate mom, they would have grown to depend on each other a lot more than they already did, and things grow out of that. We see it happen all the time!

I'm not the biggest Cangel shipper out there, but then again, I'm not the biggest anything shipper out there, so I'm not gonna stand here on a soapbox and tell you they were the perfect couple. But given the way Cordy grew and developed on AtS, I'd say, given the right storyline, they could have been great.

 

[The Unspoken]

So I am one of those who thinks Cangel was forced. I felt like they were great friends and were forced into a romantic relationship because they were two main characters who need a love interest and they were good friends so to the writers it "made sense," but it didn't.

Honestly, you could say the same about every other couple.

'They were two lesbian witches, so they should hook up.'

'She was a Slayer and he was a vampire with a soul who followed her across the continent, spied on her from his car, stalked her and pursued a relationship with her while she was a minor, so they should ho...'

Oh wait, disregard that last example. 🙂

I do, however, think that if Cangel had more time to develop, they could have been a great ship. For example, if Connor had not been taken away and they had sort of parented him together as they were doing in the brief time both Cordy and Connor were there, I think a romantic relationship could have grown from that and it would be beautiful. Also, if there was more time maybe after she came back before she went in a mystical coma because of the worst arc ever... or better yet, that worst arc ever was never done, I think they could have had a beautiful romantic relationship growing from friendship. So my question is, do you think Cangel would have been a better ship if they had more time to develop it before the Jasmine thing? Or if they had more time because they had never done the Jasmine thing?

I think it's subjective, you simply either like it or you don't.

 

[StarSlayer]

God, I hate the Connor/Cordy storyline. That felt weird and wrong on so many levels. But, putting that aside, I still think if Angel and Cordy had more time, they would have had a decent shot. The tragedy of their story is that they never did get their chance. Things kept them apart from admitting their feelings for each other and also being together. IMO, they would have been perfect if they had more time.

 

[brinkster130]

I think they needed more time. Cangel was incomplete; we never got to see if they would have worked out...it would have been nice to actually see them as a couple rather than just have them briefly mentioned then split apart.

They had an amazing friendship and their dynamic was great. IMO, having Fred and Lorne constantly reminding the two of them of their feelings gives it a somewhat rushed feeling. Personally, I think the writers could have done a better job with them.

In your other scenario, however, I think it could have worked. Raising Connor together, Cordy becoming his surrogate mom, they would have grown to depend on each other a lot more than they already did, and things grow out of that. We see it happen all the time!

^ I agree. I think if Angel and Cordy had raised Connor together their relationship would have grown into a romantic relationship.

I do love the scene with Angel, Cordy and Connor laying in bed talking like a little family.

 

[zobothehobo]

Well, if the coma/Jasmine arc hadn't happened, then Cordy was gonna be the main bad guy of the season. No Beast, no Angelus, as far as I know, just Cordy as the main villian, so taking that into account, no I don't think it could have worked out for them.

I mean like if she wasn't associated with the big bad of the season at all.

 

[StarSlayer]

I'm so surprised when people get this rushed feeling, lol! If you just look at s3, then yes. I think it may feel that way. But, the potential for a romantic relationship was evident in s1 and s2. In s1, when Angel rushes to the hospital to see Cordy...how he immediately says he's family when it comes to Cordy. How he holds her hand, saying "I need you back." In times of crisis, you realize how much you love someone. 😉 Also, in s2 for instance, when Cordy fell after her vision and Angel caught her, saying "I got you"...that was one of the most sweetest moments between them. 🙂 I'm not saying these moments showed they were in love (or maybe they were, have to think on that, lol 😉), but that I could see something more between them in the long run and it just felt natural. 🙂

 

[soulunsung]

I think it's like The Unspoken said, you either like it or you don't.

For me, personally, I always saw Cordy/Angel as a natural progression from friends to could have been lovers, who never really got their chance.

I saw nothing about these two that were forced at all, because it was very clear from the beginning that the two cared deeply for one another. As StarSlayer pointed out, these two always found a way to protect the other, to be there for the other, and to ensure the other would be okay. Like, Angel's admission that he needs her, Cordy sacrificing her life ultimately to get her guy back on track, her belief in him alone period, the fact that he'd come more near killing someone if they so much as hurt her in any way (ie. going as far as to make that point clear to Lilah), to his assuring Cordy that whether she had the visions or not she would still be needed - that he would still need her.

For me their love for one another, regardless if anyone else had to point it out to them, was always based in friendship and just grew and progressed from there. I'd like to believe that Lorne and Wesley's pointing out the obvious to them, wasn't so much as a knock upside the head with a big realization sign, but rather the two of them gently prodding their two friends who obviously knew what was going on between them but was maybe too afraid of messing up their friendship (relationship as it was) by acting on the feelings as a means of gently pushing them...saying, "look, you only get one life and you have a chance for possible happiness, so why not just take it?"

I don't really think there's anything unnatural in that, at all. Maybe things were a bit rushed in S3, but in a way I also don't think they were all that much anyway. Because, I'd like to believe that these two coming together as a couple were always inevitable as far as Angel the show, goes.

Maybe that's just the shipper in me, I don't know, but all I know is that I love these two and their story is one of the most beautifully orchestrated could have been's ever. 🙂

 

[prophecygrrl]

I think Cangel is one of the most natural and sensible relationships I've ever seen. I love their story. Let's just pretend the atrocity that is Connor/Cordy/Jasmine doesn't exist, because if anything, that was the forced part of their story. Grr. I hate that storyline with a fiery passion. 😡 Stupid behind-the-scenes issues.

But Cordy and Angel's relationship in canon? The way they were always there for each other and how they understood each other like no one else? Perfect, perfect dynamic. They were like that from day one in Los Angeles, and that never changed. I didn't find the transition from best friends to almost lovers forced at all.
I would've loved for them to be a real couple because c'mon, who doesn't want their OTP to get together? 😛 But the more I think about it, the more I think that they didn't need anything else. They didn't need more time to be a better ship, or a better family. They always were. Now, I could get behind some better writing in Season 4, on the other hand...

---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------

soulunsung agrees: Haha! 😛 They might not have needed "more time," because they were perfect the way they were. But, I sure would have liked to have seen over a few eps.

Oh yeah, me too. I would've loved to see more, and that scenario Zobo and some other people were talking about (being a family with Angel, Connor, and Cordy) sounds amazing. The scene where they're falling asleep with Connor between them is so precious I could fangirl over that for days. And I probably have fangirled over that for days, come to think of it lol. But do they need more time to be better? Nah. I don't think so, anyway.

 

[soulunsung]

Oh yeah, me too. I would've loved to see more, and that scenario Zobo and some other people were talking about (being a family with Angel, Connor, and Cordy) sounds amazing. The scene where they're falling asleep with Connor between them is so precious I could fangirl over that for days. And I probably have fangirled over that for days, come to think of it lol. But do they need more time to be better? Nah. I don't think so, anyway.

Nah, they don't need more time to be better. They just needed more time to "just be" with each other. And I'm all for a Angel/Connor/Cordy little family unit, because that scene was one of the most precious. lol. Can't you picture them owning a boat? Heh.

 

[caitaintdead]

Sorry guys but I'm 100% against a cangel romance. I adored them as friends, loved them as best buds, but as lovers? Something about it just didn't appeal to me and furthermore there was something about extremely unsexy. I don't expect everyone to understand, we all have different ideas of what is a sexy relationship and what isn't. I have tried to open my mind up to the idea of it, but it just doesn't work for me.

More time as the answer to this though? I don't think so. To me it just felt like the ultimate proof that boys and girls can just be friends. Then they got thrown into a relationship. It seemed dull, and predictable and very vanilla. Strangely enough, their friendship never felt that way to me, and the characters certainly didn't...

 

[Christopher]

I think Bangel is love but Cangel is better then Spuffy. Some scenes between them were really touching and the one in the ballet episode (despite being 'semi' possessed) was so damn sexy. Phew.

Then again, the last episode of Angel we watched was 'You're Welcome'...

 

[Marisa]

I don't see them as forced or just because they were two main characters.
I do however think they deserved more time. Their time that they had was great but I think it is easier not to consider them a ship like fivebyfive said because they were never really a couple.
I guess if they had more time to develop fully some people would like them more it is all about opinion though.

 

[cordangel]

I think it's like The Unspoken said, you either like it or you don't.

For me, personally, I always saw Cordy/Angel as a natural progression from friends to could have been lovers, who never really got their chance.

I saw nothing about these two that were forced at all, because it was very clear from the beginning that the two cared deeply for one another. As StarSlayer pointed out, these two always found a way to protect the other, to be there for the other, and to ensure the other would be okay. Like, Angel's admission that he needs her, Cordy sacrificing her life ultimately to get her guy back on track, her belief in him alone period, the fact that he'd come more near killing someone if they so much as hurt her in any way (ie. going as far as to make that point clear to Lilah), to his assuring Cordy that whether she had the .visions or not she would still be needed - that he would still need her.


For me their love for one another, regardless if anyone else had to point it out to them, was always based in friendship and just grew and progressed from there. I'd like to believe that Lorne and Wesley's pointing out the obvious to them, wasn't so much as a knock upside the head with a big realization sign, but rather the two of them gently prodding their two friends who obviously knew what was going on between them but was maybe too afraid of messing up their friendship (relationship as it was) by acting on the feelings as a means of gently pushing them...saying, "look, you only get one life and you have a chance for possible happiness, so why not just take it?"

I don't really think there's anything unnatural in that, at all. Maybe things were a bit rushed in S3, but in a way I also don't think they were all that much anyway. Because, I'd like to believe that these two coming together as a couple were always inevitable as far as Angel the show, goes.

Maybe that's just the shipper in me, I don't know, but all I know is that I love these two and their story is one of the most beautifully orchestrated could have been's ever. 🙂

I really love your post. Everything you've said is right for me. 🙂

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I would kill myself if they lasted longer.

 

[VisionGirl]

I think they needed more time. Cangel was incomplete; we never got to see if they would have worked out...it would have been nice to actually see them as a couple rather than just have them briefly mentioned then split apart.

They had an amazing friendship and their dynamic was great. IMO, having Fred and Lorne constantly reminding the two of them of their feelings gives it a somewhat rushed feeling. Personally, I think the writers could have done a better job with them.

I completely agree with this. As I've said before, I don't dislike Cangel, and the relationship itself wasn't rushed, it was just something about the way it was written. Yeah, maybe there were some hints earlier on, but there were also some incidents in the earlier seasons where Cordy clearly made it know that she did not think about Angel in that way.

And I guess it just bugs me that Cangel was "inevitable" because they were the 2 big stars and since were attractive and opposite sex that they had to get into a romantic relationship. Their friendship was one of the best in the Buffyverse, and for awhile it demonstrated to me that a man and a woman could be best friends, without it necessarily needing to lead to sex. Honestly, early on with the "family" theme, they had more of a brother-sister quality about them. Look at Xander and Willow: Xander literally saved Willow and the world in Grave. It was long-standing love for Willow that did that. And (the stupid subplot in s3 notwithstanding) it was a friendship love, but it was incredibly strong, strong enough to save the day. There doesn't have to be a sexual element for a relationship to be powerful and touching.

I don't know, I could go either way with it, I just wish the romance would've been written better. Plus I found myself irritated with episodes like Couplet and WWIW, at the overemphasis on the new 'ships (Cangel, Fred/Gunn) at the expense of other aspects of the plot. And then yes, I was frustrated that once they admitted their feelings, they never did get together. It was like "WTH was that all about?". It was all for nothing. Maybe I'm just mad about all the unresolved sexual tension in WWIW lol!

Still, You're Welcome is one of my favorite Angel episodes. A lot of that was because it was the return of the Cordy I knew and loved.

So I guess I need to conclude this by saying that I love Cangel as a friendship, and only like them as a romance. Maybe if they would've had more time as a romantic 'ship, i would've come to love them, who knows?

 

[StarSlayer]

Yeah, maybe there were some hints earlier on, but there were also some incidents in the earlier seasons where Cordy clearly made it know that she did not think about Angel in that way.

I definitely agree that in addition to the hints of a potential romance, we also saw things were Angel and Cordy were just friends and simply that. But, to me, I guess that's what makes me like their story even more. The fact that they were strictly friends first and something so natural developed out of that.

Honestly, early on with the "family" theme, they had more of a brother-sister quality about them. Look at Xander and Willow: Xander literally saved Willow and the world in Grave. It was long-standing love for Willow that did that. And (the stupid subplot in s3 notwithstanding) it was a friendship love, but it was incredibly strong, strong enough to save the day. There doesn't have to be a sexual element for a relationship to be powerful and touching.

Although they were friends, I never got the brother-sister feeling with Angel and Cordy. I know some people do, which is fine. For me, I get the brother-sister feeling more with Angel and Faith. And I agree that there doesn't necessarily have to be a sexual element for a relationship to be powerful and touching (as you said through Xander/Willow). But, at the same time, if that's the story were given and I like it, then I'm all for it. 🙂 I think romanic relationships can make the other person better and stronger, and that's the feeling I got with Angel and Cordy. The love that developed between these two characters, which became more than a friendship, was powerful and touching, even if they never really got their chance.

And then yes, I was frustrated that once they admitted their feelings, they never did get together. It was like "WTH was that all about?". It was all for nothing. Maybe I'm just mad about all the unresolved sexual tension in WWIW lol!

Do you mean in s4, when Angel asked if they were in love? As far as the end of WWIW, they were possessed under the spell of ghosts though, lol! We knew Angel definitely had feelings for Cordy, but we didn't know if Cordy had feelings for Angel.