Cangel

[celestialarrow]

Alright it's time we all got to the bottom of why some people dislike this relationship. I mean yesterday on the forum someone said they didn't believe it because they didn't believe that in real life Angel and Cordy would even be friends. And I have this to say about that if you take their friendship from a real-life perspective they could indeed be friends. Imagine a group of people(scooby gang including when cordy and angel was still there) who face hardships all the time and struggle just to get by who depend on each other. Then imagine two of those people who new each other fairly well move away in an unknown town to them. One of them is heartbroken over the lost of a true love and another who is vunerable and desperate for attention. Then they finally meet back up with each other and find a purpose in life and learn to confide in each other. Of course they would be friend though their personalities are different because opposites attract. So when their relationship gradually started in season 3 I enjoyed it because it seemed inevitable and realistic. It wasn't like there wasn't signs in the other season's. And in the third season angel endured alot as did crodelia so i think them being drawn to one another. Some say it was rushed ,but HOW it took 3 season's for them to finally admit their feeling and then they didn't even get a chance.

 

[white avenger]

If it helps, I don't even think Buffy Season 1 Cordelia and Angel Season 4 Cordy would have been friends. The selfish self centered girl grew up into a responsible, brave woman who could hold her own in either a discussion of the ethics of letting harmless demons live unmolested AND kick a harmful demon's Ass it the need arose. That's the woman Angel loved. The girl didn't compare to the woman.

 

[groovygarden]

Oh, good question.

Joss Whedon: "The Angel/Cordelia [love story] had gone pretty much as far as we wanted to take it. Their romance was definitely not a popular move on our part"

I've been a bit surprised to find out Cangel was so unpopular. I wasn't really doing the whole forum/boards thing when Angel first aired, so I obviously missed the fan uprising. Did people dislike Cangel because it was Angel & Cordy, or because it was Angel and a-girl-who-wasn't-Buffy?

It's been a while since I watched Angel (the DVD's are atch in the post as I type), but for me Cangel was the main reason I watched the show. It was one of the more believable relationships in the Buffyverse. It developed slowly and naturally over three series, and even then they never quite got there.

They were both going through changes, facing dangerous situations and making hard choices and sacrifices. And through all that they supported each other, kept each other safe and watched out for each other. It seems natural to me that something more could develop from that.

I think Angel's tendency was to close himself off from people, but that made him a less effective champion. Cordy was Angel's link. Whether she was teasing his broodiness ("Hey, look at me, I'm Angel, I have to count my past sins, then alphabetize them.") or encouraging him to face something hugely significant, like his feelings about Buffy's death, Cordy didn't let Angel close himself off - she kept him on track.

 

[VisionGuy]

Oh, good question.



I've been a bit surprised to find out Cangel was so unpopular. I wasn't really doing the whole forum/boards thing when Angel first aired, so I obviously missed the fan uprising. Did people dislike Cangel because it was Angel & Cordy, or because it was Angel and a-girl-who-wasn't-Buffy?

It's been a while since I watched Angel (the DVD's are atch in the post as I type), but for me Cangel was the main reason I watched the show. It was one of the more believable relationships in the Buffyverse. It developed slowly and naturally over three series, and even then they never quite got there.

They were both going through changes, facing dangerous situations and making hard choices and sacrifices. And through all that they supported each other, kept each other safe and watched out for each other. It seems natural to me that something more could develop from that.

I think Angel's tendency was to close himself off from people, but that made him a less effective champion. Cordy was Angel's link. Whether she was teasing his broodiness ("Hey, look at me, I'm Angel, I have to count my past sins, then alphabetize them.") or encouraging him to face something hugely significant, like his feelings about Buffy's death, Cordy didn't let Angel close himself off - she kept him on track.

And that's exactly why I like Cangel.

 

[randiann]

I never bought Cangel. To me it doesn't make sense. AT ALL. In Buffy Season 3, Angel leaves Buffy because she is human and he can't give her a normal life. Then three years later, he wants to be with Cordy? He can't give her a normal life either. It makes zero sense. To me, Cangel felt forced and unnatural. The two aren't ever going to be able to settle down and raise a family and whatnot. That's why Angel left Buffy. Why then would he go and date a woman the same age as Buffy if nothing has changed for him? He still can't give her any of those things. Plus, if I had it my way Angel would have ended IWRY style without the sad ending.

Bangel forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bangelxx]

I second radiann!

I much prefer bangel over cangel although I don't DISLIKE cangel. I actually think its kind of sweet.🙂 its just that bangel is sooooo much better 😛

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

People, really, what's there not to like about Cangel? This is my favourite ship (which many of you are probably aware of, lol) in...ever! From every show I've ever watched (well, except maybe Star Trek Voyager...I was sooooo Tom/B'Elanna obsessed a few years back...I don't really want to compare these couples).
Cangel developed so naturally, 2 characters grew (lol, I was tempted to write Groo) together over the years. You could so feel for them, and see how they cared for each other. Angel would've went through hell for Cordy. Like in 'That Vision Thing' where he does everything to save Cordy.
And now seriously, how can anyone not like this ship?

 

[Xin Rong]

Yeah angel and cordy went through a lot together, that kind of things brings you close, at least as friends and as the saying goes love can blossom from the seeds of friendship lol

Also cordy did kind of have a thing for angel in buffy, even if it did stem from jealousy and how could angel not love someone as gorgeous as cordy lol

 

[Tranquillity]

I love Cangel. I found it totally believable and realistic. They had such a great friendship that started to grow into something more. I loved that scene in You're Welcome when they kiss and Angel looks so happy. I want Cordy back!!!!!!!

 

[randiann]

Cangel just makes no sense! It's awful and icky. Angel should have never been with Cordy in any way. If he can't be with Buffy because she's human, then there is no logic with him being with Cordy (who is also human). If anyone can find a logical arguement to that, then you've got me beat but until then I will hate Cangel forever.

 

[celestialarrow]

Cangel just makes no sense! It's awful and icky. Angel should have never been with Cordy in any way. If he can't be with Buffy because she's human, then there is no logic with him being with Cordy (who is also human). If anyone can find a logical arguement to that, then you've got me beat but until then I will hate Cangel forever.

Well here's a couple of logical arguments. One cordy wasn't human anymore after Birthday so that's one up on the Bangel relationship. Another when angel met buffy and they fell in love I believe it was more of puppy love. He came to sunnydale pretty much alone so their relationship must have ment everything to him and come on she was only 16 so of course she thought the world of him but in Sunnydale buffy had the weight of the world on her though he did help he didn't have the responsibility she felt because he helped people at that time because he loved her. But when he went to Los Angeles he had to have that same responsibility as buffy that being said he had to depend on others just as buffy does(Xander, Willow) and cordy was there always by his side as she mentioned she would be in Judgement. Angel needed cordy as she needed him in the ways buffy needed the scooby gang. And look at just the emotional heartaches they suffered in season one(Hero, To Shanshu in LA) of course they depended and needed each other. Also a baby being introduced in season 3 how would that not bring two friends even closer that's something buffy and angel never experienced together and probably never would have in sunnydale. Also them just maturing and growing as people together it was bound something would come out of it, it just so happened to be love. Angel had changed and he truly thought he could make cordy happy so why not be together I mean it wasn't like buffy was waiting around for him.

 

[LadyLavinia]

I liked the Angel/Cordelia relationship because it seemed more adult than Bangel. Sorry, but I could never get into the latter. It seemed too much like teenage angst, in compare to Angel's relationship with Cordelia. My only problem with "Cangel" is that Mutant Enemy tried to force the issue of them becoming a pair with Fred's ridiculous pronouncement about them being destined for love. I really wish that Ms. Burkle had kept her mouth shut and allowed Angel and Cordelia to develop into a pair, naturally.

 

[celestialarrow]

I liked the Angel/Cordelia relationship because it seemed more adult than Bangel. Sorry, but I could never get into the latter. It seemed too much like teenage angst, in compare to Angel's relationship with Cordelia. My only problem with "Cangel" is that Mutant Enemy tried to force the issue of them becoming a pair with Fred's ridiculous pronouncement about them being destined for love. I really wish that Ms. Burkle had kept her mouth shut and allowed Angel and Cordelia to develop into a pair, naturally.

You know me and you both because a lot of people I've chatted with on the matter felt that's why it seemed forced to them. But I got this take on the situation Cordy and Angel though champions their pretty slow when it came to their feelings for each other in a romatic sense. I guess everyone around them already noticed it so Fred just pointed out to Angel because personally I think he would have never figured it out he already thought she was too good for him(Waiting in the Wings) also not knowing if she felt the same way it probably really baffled him. And cordy probably already felt it but with groo there it kinda made her put her feelings for Angel on the backburner until it became too obvious to everyone what was going on between them. And she decide to admit those feelings.

 

[Crazy Flakes]

Okay, let me get this out of the way first: I like Bangel. They were a great couple, and Angel was my favorite one of Buffy's boyfriends. But I definitely like Cangel much more.

Sure, Buffy and Angel were great, but in reality, it was just puppy love. As I've said before in other threads, it annoyed me that they were never even friends. They met, had a couple of brief meetings, and the next thing you know, they're "true lovers." Also, after watching Angel, I've realized that he really wasn't himself when he was around Buffy. It may be because his character developed a lot more on his own show, but still, he was just boring when he was with Buffy.

On the other hand, Angel was always himself when he was with Cordelia. He trusted her before he fell in love with her. Plus, they had a lot more in common...they were both champions of the Powers That Be. It was, as Lorne said, "Kyrumption." Plus, it wasn't like the forbidden romance that Buffy and Angel had, which, as romantic as it is, has been done to death. Angel and Cordelia trusted and loved each other, and that was something that Buffy and Angel didn't have. Like I've said before, Angel and Cordy were much more mature, much less cliched, and just more fit for each other than Buffy and Angel.

 

[eunsoma]

Bangel was so dramatic cuz Buffy and Angel were both whiners!! lol, at least Cangel was less sooky..

 

[Crazy Flakes]

I never bought Cangel. To me it doesn't make sense. AT ALL. In Buffy Season 3, Angel leaves Buffy because she is human and he can't give her a normal life. Then three years later, he wants to be with Cordy? He can't give her a normal life either.

Here's my take on this...

Angel didn't want to be responsible for shaping Buffy's life. At the time they were together, Buffy wasn't an adult. He wanted her to go through high school the way she wanted to, then grow up into her own person. Cordelia, on the other hand, already had her life shaped by her experiences with Angel. Buffy planned on going to college and living a normal life, something Angel couldn't give her. Cordelia gave up on having a normal life long before she and Angel fell in love. She was already an adult, and she decided she wanted to spend the rest of her life as a champion for the Powers That Be, like Angel. And don't forget the fact that, after Birthday, she wasn't a human anymore.

 

[scarybunny97]

I never bought Cangel. To me it doesn't make sense. AT ALL. In Buffy Season 3, Angel leaves Buffy because she is human and he can't give her a normal life. Then three years later, he wants to be with Cordy? He can't give her a normal life either. It makes zero sense. To me, Cangel felt forced and unnatural. The two aren't ever going to be able to settle down and raise a family and whatnot. That's why Angel left Buffy. Why then would he go and date a woman the same age as Buffy if nothing has changed for him? He still can't give her any of those things. Plus, if I had it my way Angel would have ended IWRY style without the sad ending.

Bangel forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know I'm an eensy bit late to this one, but there's one other major difference in Angel's life when he "falls for" Cordy. The Shanshu prophecy. Granted, later on Angel totally loses faith in it, but through late S2 and most of S3, Angel actually has some hope that he may get to be a "real boy" someday. It could be a century or five down the line--or it could be in ten years. Point being, he and Cordy had more hope offered to them then he and Buffy had together.

My personal opinion on Bangle is that it was Pure, Perfect First Love. It's a beautiful love, but not one that can translate to into the messy world of adulthood. I never doubted that Buffy and Angel loved each other--but I rarely saw them functioning as partners successfully once Buffy started to become less of a doe-eyed girl and more of a woman. I think Bangle vs Cangle is a lot like Bangle vs Spuffy. There is no real debate there because it all love, just different loves when the characters involved where at completely different points in their lives. For instance, a part of me will always love MY first love, what I had with him was real and pure--but if I had stayed with him then I'd be sharing my life with a meth addict right now. Almost no one is the same person as an adult as they are in High School. Which is why Bangle plays for me as the perfect High School relationship, and Cangle plays for me as something that could have been a real adult partnership and love story.

Yes, I am the most long-winded person in history.

 

[randiann]

She was already an adult, and she decided she wanted to spend the rest of her life as a champion for the Powers That Be, like Angel. And don't forget the fact that, after Birthday, she wasn't a human anymore.

Buffy was also a champion, and also not exactly a normal human, as the slayers have the essence of a demon in them as is told in season 7. Cordy was still a human for all intensive purposes, it's not like she ceased being human because she was now part demon. Yes Cordy at age 21-22 (or so) is a bit more mature than a 16 year old Buffy. But the main problem hasn't changed for Angel. I will just never buy that Angel could totally overlook that when he left the woman he loved because he couldn't give her a normal life. Argue all you want about Cordy being a champion; it's not like Buffy was a normal girl either to begin with. Think of why they couldn't be together in IWRY- even human Angel realizes that it is impossible for him to be with Buffy because her life is too dangerous and he makes her put others at risk in order to protect him. Cordy having visions and fighting evil can't be used as a pro-Cangel arguement for this reason IMO.

Also thanks to whomever mentioned Fred always saying they were destined kyrumption blah blah. Yet another reason why Cangel felt so forced

 

[celestialarrow]

Buffy was also a champion, and also not exactly a normal human, as the slayers have the essence of a demon in them as is told in season 7. Cordy was still a human for all intensive purposes, it's not like she ceased being human because she was now part demon. Yes Cordy at age 21-22 (or so) is a bit more mature than a 16 year old Buffy. But the main problem hasn't changed for Angel. I will just never buy that Angel could totally overlook that when he left the woman he loved because he couldn't give her a normal life. Argue all you want about Cordy being a champion; it's not like Buffy was a normal girl either to begin with. Think of why they couldn't be together in IWRY- even human Angel realizes that it is impossible for him to be with Buffy because her life is too dangerous and he makes her put others at risk in order to protect him. Cordy having visions and fighting evil can't be used as a pro-Cangel arguement for this reason IMO.

Also thanks to whomever mentioned Fred always saying they were destined kyrumption blah blah. Yet another reason why Cangel felt so forced

Well its like this Angel did I guess he got over it otherwise he would have stayed on buffy never moved to LA and we would have never have gotten the more mature and self-assured angel on his own series also all the great characters from that series. And if you what to talk about relationships being forced angel in flashbacks on his series wasn't exactly portraited like a love-ridden high schooler who just happened to fall in love with a slayer. After meeting a couple of times. I guess it's you like it(Cangel) or you dont Angel got to shine and grow up on his series of course his priorities about relationships would change I mean buffy wasn't exactly the same girl she was when he left case and point the Spuffy relationship.

 

[randiann]

And I am in no way a Spuffy fan either. I love Angel. I think it is a great show with great characters, don't get me wrong. And I don't think that Buffy and Angel could ever ultimately be together, I think that was illustrated more than once. But I just don't buy Cangel. I much rather Angel and Cordy be close friends than having to pair up. And you don't just "get over" true love. It was with him through Season 5 of Angel (think of the Spike/Angel banter on this subject). I just never saw Angel and Cordy as more than friends, and having Fred and Lorne say 'oh it's true love' every five minutes didn't help things.

So my conclusions: Ultimately Angel can be with neither Buffy nor Cordelia (especially cause she died)
Bangel=True Love
Cangel=True Friendship, which does not need to equate to anything that is not plutonic