Characters now and then

[Tueuse de Vampires]

We've had discussion about what scenes and events we as the viewers would have crossed out of the show, but here's a new twist to that:
Imagine each character pretty soon after their first appearance on the show. They get the chance to see the future (let's say til the end of AtSs5 and BtVSs7) and everything that will happen to them. What would THEY do different, or would they do anything different?

To make this a fun discussion, I've added some rules:

1. Some events are inevitable, and the characters know that. Like, Buffy is aware that her mother will die no matter if she dates Angel or not. There's just nothing she could do to prevent it.

2. Some event could be easily prevented, but this wouldn't be fun with them. Like, you could say if Wesley had known he would die facing that one guy in the final episode, he would've just sent Illyria there in the first place. This should rather be about the inevitable choices they all had to make, like would Fred have stayed with AI if she'd seen how she would end up, or would Buffy have still sacrificed herself for Dawn if she'd known her death would have such an impact on herself later, or would Darla stake herself again in order to save Connor? Sort of like when Cordy had the chance to take her alternate life as a celebrity, or keep her own life and die from the visions.

3. The characters have insight into WHY they did something, and HOW they ended up somewhere. It's in their own judgement to decide if it's worth it or not.

4. Even if a character wants to make a change to prevent something from happening - would they be able to? Like, could Willow stop herself from getting addicted to magic without never starting magic?

 

[Blondie Bear]

Maybe, if we were REALLY lucky, Darla would never have slept with Angel to begin with, so there wouldn't have BEEN a Connor. That would be GREAT.

 

[pieceofgosa]

Ok, this is a pretty cool idea. The first two things that come to mind are:

1. Given knowledge of the future I would hope that Willow & Xander wouldn't have engaged in their little "affair", that always gives me an icky feeling.

2. I would also hope that Xander would have gone through with the wedding.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

One thing I know is that Cordelia most definitely would have done everything exactly the same. She didn't have it in her to abandon the fight.

I think if Buffy had seen the vast amounts of trauma she would suffer, she would have ended up a lot more like the Buffy we see in The Wish. She'd have closed herself off from her friends and family, and she'd probably have done her season 6 dance with Spike a lot earlier on. Oh, and she'd have killed Faith AGES ago. I like Buffy, but she had a lot of potential to go that way. It was only because she did open up to her friends that she managed to stay (occasionally) sane.

It's interesting to think about Spike though. If he'd seen that he was going to save the world for the love of a Slayer in Season 2, he'd probably have staked himself, lol!

---------- Post added at 01:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 AM ----------

Eleftheria agrees: why would Buffy "dance" with Spike earlier?If she was Wishverse Buffy she would hate every vampire...

I agree, she would hate him. And she wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt that the Scoobies seemed to lavishly roll out in the earlier seasons. But Spike would be much more on guard. He wouldn't let her kill him. I think that'd be enough to keep him undead for a while. And I always saw Buffy and Spike as inevitable. She felt isolated and alone - death was her gift. She'd feel that from the get go if she knew how much pain she'd cause everyone in her life. She always took that out on Spike, physically and sexually. I can see her doing it again.

 

[Vengeance]

I think Anya seeing what would happen with her & Xander she'd probably break off/never initiate their relationship, especially considering her personality when she was first introduced. If it were Xander seeing his future he'd probably go through with the wedding instead. Buffy I think would still sacrifice herself for Dawn, just like she did after hearing the prophecy in S1. Spike would get out of Sunnydale (or stake himself, lol).

 

[Eleftheria]

Actually the only inevitable thing is Bangel IMO.:giggle: I am sure Buffy would try to avoid him cause of the curse, but it would be inevitable for both of them. Star crossed love is just meant to be.

As for Spike, I have to disagree with Lindsay. Yeah, in s6 she took all her pain out to Spike, but now I think she would stay away from him, or try to kill him. And he would do the same thing. He would probably get obsessed with killing her if he knew that he would finally fall in love with a Slayer.

I agree about Anya. She would remain a demon, perhaps to protect her heart.

About Willow, I don't really know. Her magic saved lots of situations, I don't know if she could avoid getting addicted.

Buffy would probably end up alone, probably just her and Giles, as her watcher. Her friends proved to be valuable, but when you are 16 and find out that you, not in a direct way, or perhaps your soulless boyfriend is gonna try to end the world, she would stay away from Sunnydale.And I think she would die in a much younger age. Like in Wishverse.

And I think Angel would avoid sleeping with Darla, just to prevent Connor from getting hurt. Cause Connor had suffered a lot. I think Angel would hate to see his son go through all that again.

Wow, this is a very complicated talk. You know, seeing the future, KNOW what you're gonna feel.

 

[Lyri]

I think Spike would have avoided Sunnydale altogether. Had he been aware of what would happen to him as soon as he set foot in that town, he would have run as fast as he could in the other direction. His whole life, or un-life, went to hell as soon as he came to Sunnydale. He would have been fine if he'd never came to the Hellmouth.

I'd like to think that Faith would get her act together and be a 'proper' Slayer, but honestly, she was never gonna be like Kendra, or even Buffy. Had she known that she would kill a human, maybe she would have tried a little harder, trained a little more, paid more attention to her job, instead of having fun all the time. Maybe if she was a little more aware of what the life of a Slayer was, she would have ended up more like the Faith we saw at the end of the show. She's never going to be a leader, but she has the confidence to hold her own in the Slayer stakes.

Considering what's going on in S8 right now, I think if Buffy knew what was going to happen to the Slayers they created, she would never have agreed to that spell. Buffy isn't any happier than she was in Sunnydale, which is what she thought would happen. Thousands of Slayers, she was supposed to be able to retire, have fun with her sister and friends. Yet here she is, still in the middle of the fight, with everyone, including the other Slayers, looking to HER to fix everything, as usual. Nothing's really changed, except she's not the only super-strong little girl in the world.

 

[white avenger]

One of the major things that I would have had the characters know about in advance would be the accidental killing of the Assistant Mayor in Season 3. Either Buffy or Faith or both could have simply been more careful what or who they were staking. Barring that, I think that, instead of confronting Faith alone about it initially after it happened, Buffy had taken Giles with her so that they could have both explained that what had happened was an accident, tragic, but simply something that was, under the circumstances, unavoidable. I don't think that Giles was anywhere near as upset about what happened (during the millennia since the Shadow Men created the First Slayer, there have, undoubtedly, been civilians who had simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time, so the Watchers probably had ways of handling such situations) as he was in Faith trying to shift the blame to Buffy.

With that obstacle out of the way, Buffy and Faith could have continued on the way that, to me at least, they seemed to be going, and become the close fiends that I have always wished that they could be. And note that I said FRIENDS, not lovers. Two Slayers working together could have handled Adam, Glory (almost certainly resulting in avoiding Buffy's sacrifice), and the Triumvirate, which would have possibly prevented Tara's death and Dark Willow's creation, AND, last but certainly not least, have avoided the shift in the natural order ot things that resulted in the First Evil being able to stir up all of its mischief, thus avoiding Anya's death.

No dead Potentials, no destruction of Sunnydale, no Caleb, no Slayer army, no Twilight...the total Butterfly Effect.

And, of course, probably no traumatized Buffy to have her self destructive affair with Spike, thus resulting in the avoidance of the never ending Bangel/Spuffy argument. Buffy would have succumbed to Spike's natural charms in such a way as to eliminate any doubt that they were supposed to have been together from the beginning, clearing the way for Angel to finally express his true feelings for Xander. Everybody lives happily ever after. Did I mention the Buffy/Spike/Faith thing? The true highlight of the series, and a historical development for American TV audiences.

Everybody lives happily ever after,

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

This is actually really difficult to think about. There are so many variables, especially if you try and think of them all knowing at the same time. But, Lyri, I disagree about Spike. At the start, he was supremely arrogant. He'd always been inferior to Angelus, and he was out to prove himself. He discovers that not only will he be unable kill this slayer, but he'll become her pet? He's not running away from that. He fought destiny to triumph over Angel in...well...Destiny, and he'd sure as hell try to kill Buffy at the earliest opportunity. The more he trys to kill her, the closer they get; the closer they get...the...er..closer....I'm gonna stop now.

My point is, Spike never gave up on killing a Slayer once he'd set his sights. You think a few visions would be enough to change him at that point? He'd want revenge for even seeing himself as a puppy dog!

 

[Lyri]

My point is, Spike never gave up on killing a Slayer once he'd set his sights. You think a few visions would be enough to change him at that point? He'd want revenge for even seeing himself as a puppy dog!

Hmm, you have a point there.

But I think the only thing this would have resulted in would be the death of one of them. Spike was supposed to be killed off in S2 anyway, so if HE was the only one who knew what would happen in the future, he'd be that much more determined to kill the Slayer, and that much more sloppy and arrogant, because he was so confident that he would come out on top. His over-confidence was always his downfall, and in 'knowing' what would happen to him, and 'knowing' that he had to stop that, I think the only thing it would have resulted in would be his death.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Hmm, you have a point there.

But I think the only thing this would have resulted in would be the death of one of them. Spike was supposed to be killed off in S2 anyway, so if HE was the only one who knew what would happen in the future, he'd be that much more determined to kill the Slayer, and that much more sloppy and arrogant, because he was so confident that he would come out on top. His over-confidence was always his downfall, and in 'knowing' what would happen to him, and 'knowing' that he had to stop that, I think the only thing it would have resulted in would be his death.

The more I think about this, the more confused I get. I think you might be right, if Spike knew, one would end up dead. I still stand by my original hypothesis if Buffy knew, however.

I'm not so sure it'd be Spike that died, however. I honestly think that he could have killed her at any point before s5 when she accepted her calling and really started training - if he'd had the chance. When he went after the other two Slayers, he approached with single-minded determination. The first seemed to be highly trained, and he killed her. The second had (what we now know as more important in the Buffyverse) a real reason to fight for life, and he killed her. If Spike's arrogance and lust for specifically Buffy's blood was intensified? I don't think she'd have stood a chance. There is, of course, the element of Buffy's absurd luck that only ever comes into play when events are being written for television, and her friends backing her up to consider. Still, I don't think these would have been enough to save her, early on.

I just had an interesting thought. What if, of all people, Drusilla had seen everything that would happen? Would she have kept Spike away from Sunnydale? Would she have killed Buffy herself? I think she had the capability, once restored. She was an extremely powerful vampire when she wanted to be. Or maybe she did know, and she was happy to just float along on the tide. Hmm.

 

[Lyri]

I think, if Spike knew, he would have been so determined not to end up like that, the knowledge of what could happen would have driven him insane, causing him to grown reckless. I still think, if Spike had been the one to know the future, Spike would be the one to die, as Buffy would have nothing to fight for but her life. Spike has his life, his pride, his reputation.

Drusilla was always very into listening to the stars or whatever, so I think if she'd seen it coming, she would have just let it happen.