Characters that were gay

i think it wasn't important that willow was gay. what was important was her new relationship and how it helped her grow, no matter if it were a man or woman. i think that was a lot of the emphasis. finding your soul mate,not labeling yourself something.

Edit:

Later on, yes, but wasnt it quite a bit later on? i think at the start of the relationship, that wasn't a focus and even though later on she basically said "im gay" it still didn't mean that was what it was about, because it wasn't built on that from the beginning.
 
Tueuse de Vampires
Tueuse de Vampires
but didn't Willow label herself later on?
S
Spike Angelus
SS: You are right, especially in season 7 and 8, she labels her self a lot.
I don't think it was important that a character be gay. if it was, they would throw it in your face every five minutes. I do think it added to her character, and made her someone many people could identify with, whether they were gay, straight, bi, of pan sexual.
But, for some reason, the gay characters always end up being my favorites, Willow and Tara from Buffy, and Capt. Jack Harkness from Torchwood, to name a few.
 
WARNING: Unpopular opinion below.

I felt like the "gay" thing was thrown in my face quite a bit, honestly. It seemed like every time they needed to fill out time, they gave us a Willow-Tara scene that really didn't say anything or go anywhere or really have a point (I know which scenes those are from watching the commentary, so I'm not just pulling this out of my butt). Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Willow being gay or Tara--I liked Tara, actually, I thought she was sweet--but it seemed like they were trying so hard to portray the lesbian relationship as positively as possible that it got tiring. I read one book for my thesis--I can't remember which one off the top of my head--in which the author claimed that no heterosexual relationship would ever be so insipid or unneccessary. I tend to agree. I think they could have handled it better--by handling it completely matter-of-factly instead of making such a big deal of it.

/unpopularness
 
I didn't know that Xander was supposed to be/or going to originally be gay. That would have made a totally different storyline. I'm not a big fan of Willow being a lesbian, not that I have anything against it, I just liked her better with Oz. I don't, however, feel like they are shoving the lesbian thing down our throats, it's just sort of like, yeah i'm gay, but they don't feel the need to talk about it a lot. (I'm in the middle of Season 6 right now).
 
Joss had the idea sometime before or during S3 that either Willow or Xander would eventually come out as gay. that was why we had Larry thinking Xander was gay, and Willow's doppleganger being 'kinda gay'. i don't know what made him choose Willow in the end. possibly because a lesbian relationship would undoubtably be accepted better than a gay man in a relationship...by some people, i mean. 😉
 
Blondie Bear said:
WARNING: Unpopular opinion below.

I felt like the "gay" thing was thrown in my face quite a bit, honestly. It seemed like every time they needed to fill out time, they gave us a Willow-Tara scene that really didn't say anything or go anywhere or really have a point (I know which scenes those are from watching the commentary, so I'm not just pulling this out of my butt). Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Willow being gay or Tara--I liked Tara, actually, I thought she was sweet--but it seemed like they were trying so hard to portray the lesbian relationship as positively as possible that it got tiring. I read one book for my thesis--I can't remember which one off the top of my head--in which the author claimed that no heterosexual relationship would ever be so insipid or unneccessary. I tend to agree. I think they could have handled it better--by handling it completely matter-of-factly instead of making such a big deal of it.

/unpopularness
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Well thought out post. since I've never listened to the DVD commentary I can't say much. But, I have hear it said that the network (WB) was against the Willow/Tara relationship, for fear it would cause a drop in viewers and sponsers. UPN, on the other hand, encouraged it.
 
Spike Angelus said:
Well thought out post. since I've never listened to the DVD commentary I can't say much. But, I have hear it said that the network (WB) was against the Willow/Tara relationship, for fear it would cause a drop in viewers and sponsers. UPN, on the other hand, encouraged it.
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I didn't used to listen to commentaries, but I have been lately because a) I might get some cool stuff for my thesis; b) so I can answer those questions in Buffy trivia; and c) because I have no life. 😀
 
Blondie Bear said:
I didn't used to listen to commentaries, but I have been lately because a) I might get some cool stuff for my thesis; b) so I can answer those questions in Buffy trivia; and c) because I have no life. 😀
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I might start listening to commentary while at home. I have lots of free time as of late.
The only commentary I've ever listened to was the one for "Battlestar Galactica" on then mini-series DVD and the one on "V".

BTW, what is your thesis on, and what's your major?
 
Blondie Bear said:
I'm an English major. My thesis is on the use of Fantasy in classrooms. I'm pretty much arguing that Fantasy is way underrated, then demonstrating how to teach literary criticism using Buffy as a model.
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Very cool! i agree that fantasy is very underrated. i think it is because a lot of people just take it at face value, and do not take the time to see what everything represents, or that it's supposed to get you to think, as in the case of Buffy and Angel.

BTW, I'm a criminal law major (ok, pre law at the moment) but I'm taking a major leave of absence due to some personal things.
 
*shrugs* I dont think it was neccesarily important or not important. I mean I guess it went along with Willow embracing who she was...(Hence Why Little Miss Likes to Fight pointed out "growing"...if the characters wouldn't have grown, or progressed I think most people would have lost interest...so NO I personally dont think that statement is overused)

I also had no problem with Willow being Gay, and I think the show portrayed the relationship nicely. I mean it wasnt about shoving homosexulatiy down our throats and saying "accept it accept it accept it vewiers GAY PRIDE!" (and no I am not bashing people who are Gay when I say that...thats their living choice I just think that the whole march thing and stuff is a little unnecessary because I mean its YOUR life choice not everyone elses and no one has to accept it...I mean like I said its YOUR life choice) and so on and so forth....it was simply about the relationship itself, the postiveness of the relationship and some of the downfalls, I also didn't see much of an agonizing struggle with her being Gay within herself...she just kind of accepted it and her friends accepted it and that was the end of it. Which was a nice change of pace from other shows that make a HUGE deal about coming out...I really liked how the show just showed the acceptance of it all and that was it.
 
J
Joyce Summers
I completely agree!
I also didn't see much of an agonizing struggle with her being Gay within herself...she just kind of accepted it and her friends accepted it and that was the end of it. Which was a nice change of pace from other shows that make a HUGE deal about coming out...I really liked how the show just showed the acceptance of it all and that was it.
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I totally agree with everything Vicariously said. I mean I don't think Joss ever made Willow gay just to be gay. I mean college is a time when a lot of people discover their true sexuality so it seemed natural that one of the characters would explore this. However as much as a few of you have said the 'to grow' excuse is getting old, it's true. If the characters did not grow the show would not have had the ability to move forward as it so obviously did. For things to change, people have to change.
And as Vicariously said it was more about the acceptance of this change as a whole rather than the change itself. I think that's why the first onscreen kiss between Willow and Tara was put so seamlessly in the middle of The Body. If it had been about 'we have to have a character gay!', that would have the main focus for the episode and would have been overadvertized to draw in viewers. But it wasn't as it was just a honest, simple, sweet and realistic potrayal of the relationship.

Blondie Bear said:
but it seemed like they were trying so hard to portray the lesbian relationship as positively as possible that it got tiring.
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I think it was important to be potrayed in a positive light initially for two reasons. One, there is always going to be viewers who wouldn't approve of gay relationships and/or didn't like the concept of Willow being gay so on a practical level the relationship had to be very pleasent and likeable so those unsure few could get used to it and it would grow on them. The other reason is to set us up for the downfall in season 6. After seeing Tara and Willow so perfect and so happy and so harmonious for so long to see how they break up barely into season 6 becomes even more heartbreaking. You get me?
 
Slayer Comma The said:
I think it was important to be potrayed in a positive light initially for two reasons. One, there is always going to be viewers who wouldn't approve of gay relationships and/or didn't like the concept of Willow being gay so on a practical level the relationship had to be very pleasent and likeable so those unsure few could get used to it and it would grow on them. The other reason is to set us up for the downfall in season 6. After seeing Tara and Willow so perfect and so happy and so harmonious for so long to see how they break up barely into season 6 becomes even more heartbreaking. You get me?
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I get you. But they managed to make the Buffy-Angel ending(s) incredibly heartbreaking without ever making the relationship perfect and beautiful, etc. (except in IWRY, and that was ONE episode). Maybe if it had felt more like a "real" relationship it still could have come off as tragic without feeling so staged. Don't know. (shrug)
 
Hmm, I get you (also, hehe). But I think it was necessary to start off flowery to try and offset the weirdness that admittedly the concept of Willow being gay was. Though it grew on the huge majority of us quickly.

And by Tough Love Tara and Willow do start to have their first problems remember? When they have their first argument with Tara stating how Willow's power frightens her etc.

But yeah for most of the relationship it was happy times but maybe it's because with Bangel you needed the drama otherwise the relationship just was- there was no excitement, nothing to draw us in otherwise- but with Tillow the fact that the two were 'lesbian gay type lovers' WAS the drama and so to add any other realistic arguments or problems to the relationship would have been too much maybe? I'm just thinking out loud here, hehe.
 
Vicariously said:
I also didn't see much of an agonizing struggle with her being Gay within herself...she just kind of accepted it and her friends accepted it and that was the end of it.
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Didn't Buffy (in one of her less likeable moments during the intra-Scooby tension near the end of Season 4) refer to both Xanya and Tillow something along the lines of "If I'd been any more open to your choices, my brains would've fallen out"?
Bringing such a point up at a moment like that is non-acceptance enough for my taste...
 
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