Charisma Opens Up About Whedon

[nightshade]

Read recently somewhere ? that that report was rubbish and Sarah was never properly asked to appear in the 100th episode of Angel

Interesting, I wonder if they penned an episode for her, but it never got as far as her actually being asked to do it.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Interesting, I wonder if they penned an episode for her, but it never got as far as her actually being asked to do it.

I thought the Girl in Question was originally to be for her but she couldn't make the filming.

 

[Btvs fan]

Read recently somewhere ? that that report was rubbish and Sarah was never properly asked to appear in the 100th episode of Angel

No your confused YW with TGIQ. That was was meant to be MT but they couldn't get her (obvious why now) and so they got Tom Lenk instead.
But for the hundredth episode it was meant to be SMG. Many including David Fury have confirmed it

@nightshade the 100th episode of Angel was Your Welcome E12

 

[Fuffy]

Glad to see that MT has said something, since she was only 15 when she started working on Buffy.

Would be interesting to see if any of The Avengers, DCEU Justice Leauge, Firefly cast or Dollhouse cast will even acknowledge this as Joss was involved in all of these in one way or another.

 

[darkspook]

Thats how abusers operate. They aren't stupid. They can be both charming and vicious depending on who they speak too.
Besides which many of those other people are probably still working and scared for there careers. Its easy to say hash tag Me Too but when it comes to actual consequences to you then its more tricky.

Mere Smith a writer on Angel is liking the posts by Amber Benson etc though she's not actually saying anything.

I think it is also fair to say that whistleblowers or a smoking gun in Hollywood is also stigma or seen as a blackmark on one's cv. They are often met with abuse, scepticism, degrading comments and loss of work. Actress Ashley Judd suggested that her rejection of a certain producer's advances affected her career. Charisma would have known as just one part of the machine she is replaceable and as a young actress she is one of thousands who turns up to an audtion so to be on a steady regular gig on a show loved by so many is a lucky experience. However it is not a privilege she should have to pay for or endure.

Sadly the issue of whistleblowers and the fear to come forward is not just linked to Hollywood but across the industy. In theatre, in film and in modelling there are stories of mistreatment, abuse and fear of the consequences of speaking up. It must change.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

It sounds like Joss' style of managing a show is like Kennedy's style as a drill sergeant. Maybe that is why her "leadership" was written the way it was - as a jibe at Joss for the way he thought things should be done.

 

[gwenogjones]

It sounds like Joss' style of managing a show is like Kennedy's style as a drill sergeant. Maybe that is why her "leadership" was written the way it was - as a jibe at Joss for the way he thought things should be done.

Except, like Riley, I don't think the writers saw Kennedy the way the audience did - so she isn't a jibe at anyone.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

@ The Freg; The Michelle Trachtenberg allegations are new, true, but they are as vauge as hell. I will reserve future comment until she elaborates on what inappropriate behavior means, as some of the things covered under that term are serious indeed.

 

[Cheese Slices]

@ The Freg; The Michelle Trachtenberg allegations are new, true, but they are as vauge as hell. I will reserve future comment until she elaborates on what inappropriate behavior means, as some of the things covered under that term are serious indeed.

For all we know he tried to pit her against SMG or something along those lines. Who knows. She doesn't owe anyone anything but so long as she doesn't elaborate people are going to lose their mind over this.

 

[Btvs fan]

For all we know he tried to pit her against SMG or something along those lines. Who knows. She doesn't owe anyone anything but so long as she doesn't elaborate people are going to lose their mind over this.

She's a 35 year old woman, she used the phrase inappropriate with a teenager and refers to being a survivor with all that suggests, of course people's alarm bells will ring and so they should.

You're right she does not owe anyone anything if she doesn't want to and doesn't need to go into details as it could be traumatic for her. Maybe though she could release a quick sentence saying "while horrific it was not of a sexual nature" which says no Joss wasn't inappropriate or "I do not wish to amend what I said" which says yeah what implying happened without going into further detail.

Regardless though she was 14 on S5 and only 16 by S7. Even simply being verbal and non sexual, for Joss to abuse a young girl is terrible

 

[Lovetheearth]

I re-watched all of BtVS in Lockdown 1.0 and spent many quarantine hours watching panel shows. The more I watched, the more I worried I was ruining the show for me (like an adult returning to Disney World, when your memories were made as a child)...

When I watched the Paleyfest 2008 panel, this moment stuck out. I just couldn't help but notice how JM was almost sucking up to Joss? And then NB (or JM? But I think NB) said the "you didn't even write most of them" comment, which I thought was interesting - particularly the reactions from others!
JM has also said at Comic Cons that he would only work on another Buffyverse show if Joss was running it. It made me wonder if actors were scared to say anything different and accepted Joss was 'CEO' and therefore had to revere him in a way. And actually, when I think about any job in the professional world, people wouldn't criticise their previous employer to a new employer or indeed in any public space. People have to remain professional. Particularly in show business where, as someone here pointed out, actors are replaceable. I've worked for a few egotistical CEOs to whom we have to defer, smile and nod along, regardless of our true feelings...

I think back to Joey in 'Friends' having that fateful interview after which he was killed off from 'Days of Our Lives.' Watching / reading about BtVS Comic Cons, panel shows and behind the scenes going-ons, Kai Cole's article has disillusioned me somewhat with Joss.

*Controversial opinion* I have been thinking this since last summer, but didn't want to say, as I feared the backlash (which to me confirms why CC and others stayed quiet until there was/is strength in numbers) but... I don't think Joss is that much of a genius.
I never thought this at the time of watching, or when at uni, but in the last year, I have started to doubt that Joss set out to make a feminist show. I think the premise of the show was indeed to have a girl walk down an alleyway, face up to a monster and kick its ass, as Joss said, but I think the original foundation was as simple as that. Plus, that the monsters would represent daily struggles in life. I think Joss liked the 'cute/hot geek' girl too, and wanted to popularise that archetype / trope (note the first actress cast as Willow) hence the unusual 2 female: 1 male line up. I think the show evolved to have a feminist message and many writers contributed to that.

Regarding when CC tried to tell Joss about her pregnancy, in an interview a while ago, it does seem like she tried to very early on -

.
If he did indeed ask, "Are you planning on keeping it?" then it would safe to assume it was < 12 weeks in, and most of the time employers are told at 3 months+?

With regards to MT, my first thought wasn't paedophilia. To me it sounds like he was quite unprofessional and bullying (perhaps with "jokey" comments) and people just had to awkwardly laugh along/tolerate it. As with many CEOs, often people feel they can't disagree/speak out until their financial stream is secured elsewhere. Obviously we don't know for sure, but my take is that MT's "not appropriate" is vague because the behaviour was just close to the bone and uncomfortable. Like an elderly granddad making 'old-fashioned' comments, to put it euphemistically.

I did regret going into the background of the show, behind its magic for me, and it did make me notice that SMG had distanced from the show, BUT, that said, I don't think it takes away from the series. I firmly believe that the actresses were on that show for the right reasons, because they believed in the empowering message it brought to fans. SMG said herself that a fan award meant more to her than any Grammy and I believe her words. The actors can talk about the work they did because they believed in it. And that can be separate from the workplace politics or how it is being ran. Much like we can be proud of the individual work we do in our jobs, even if we disagree with how elements are being governed from the top.

To me, BtVS is still a powerful show. I love the writing, the acting, the message and Joss' behaviour for me doesn't detract from that. I think if fans were to 'cancel it' it would be pulling away from something the actors and many writers, believed in and worked hard at. They still refer to it and are proud of it - and I hope they are still remunerated with royalties!!

 

[DeadlyDuo]

She's a 35 year old woman, she used the phrase inappropriate with a teenager and refers to being a survivor with all that suggests, of course people's alarm bells will ring and so they should.

That's the problem, it's all suggestion. What her words insinuate is of a very serious nature and it might not be factually true yet could have serious consequences. In the court of public opinion, facts are irrelevant, it's guilty until proven innocent.

You're right she does not owe anyone anything if she doesn't want to and doesn't need to go into details as it could be traumatic for her.

I disagree. Again, an unpopular opinion, but I think if you are going to insinuate something then you should elaborate or don't say anything at all publicly if it's too "traumatic" to talk about (if it is of a criminal nature then take it to the police privately, don't broadcast it to the world then refuse to reveal what went on). Regardless of Whedon's behaviour towards CC, he does not deserve to be labelled a paedophile if he is not guilty of such a crime. That is a label that will potentially stick with him for the rest of his life all because of MT's vague comment that she refused to elaborate on. MT may not have intended for it to be taken that way but that's how some people are taking it. "Man", "inappropriate behaviour", "teenage girl" is all the "facts" people need to decide that Joss is guilty.

Also it should be noted that so far, we've only been hearing one side of the story. Nobody knows the full story. There's his truth, her truth and THE truth.

Even simply being verbal or not for Joss to abuse a young girl is terrible

There's still a massive difference between him being verbally abusive towards her and him sexually abusing her.

 

[Btvs fan]

Tony Head was asked about this on UK TV show This Morning

Buffy star Anthony Head 'had no idea' about Joss Whedon allegations on set

'How on earth did I not know this was going on?'

metro.co.uk

 

[Lovetheearth]

Tony Head was asked about this on UK TV show This Morning

Buffy star Anthony Head 'had no idea' about Joss Whedon allegations on set

'How on earth did I not know this was going on?'

metro.co.uk

His reaction suggests he's interpreted MT's comments in the same way many people have here... That there was something of a sexually abusive nature happening whilst he was there (as opposed to on Angel, where he wasn't) and he's saddened that people didn't feel able to tell him as the father figure on the show. In which case, I imagine we will be hearing from JW's team in the coming days.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Tony Head was asked about this on UK TV show This Morning

Buffy star Anthony Head 'had no idea' about Joss Whedon allegations on set

'How on earth did I not know this was going on?'

metro.co.uk

It'll be interesting to see how they react when Johnny Depp wins his appeal against the sun since they were quick to announce when he lost (despite it later coming to light that it was an unfair trial which that particular judge shouldn't have been presiding over due to conflict of interest).

I'm thinking that all this behaviour from Joss may have occurred around Season 6 Buffy/Season 4 Angel. ASH would've been in England so wasn't around hence why he was unaware of it. AB and MT were around at that time, CC was pregnant around that time, SMG was having issues with Season 6 around that time etc. Clare Kramer (Glory) is friends with CC outside of Buffy so of course she would support her friend. Whedon wasn't around as much during Season 6 but he was still around.

AH would be the interesting one to hear from since she and AD were quite close to Whedon and are godparents to one of his kids. She would've been on set a lot of the time (since she and SMG are the only two to appear in every episode) so she must've seen stuff/been told stuff.

 

[LemonBanana]

Oh that's really sad to hear! I would love to know what the other actors say about this, thanks for posting it otherwise I wouldn't have heard!

 

[gwenogjones]

*Controversial opinion* I have been thinking this since last summer, but didn't want to say, as I feared the backlash (which to me confirms why CC and others stayed quiet until there was/is strength in numbers) but... I don't think Joss is that much of a genius.
I never thought this at the time of watching, or when at uni, but in the last year, I have started to doubt that Joss set out to make a feminist show.

I agree with this. I think Joss will accept any accolade you place on him and eventually he may have begun to believe his own hype - but Buffy isn't written as a feminist show (nor do I think it is feminist in any meaningful way) and I don't believe that every single metaphor or prop placement or throwaway line is actually purposefully put there for a deeper meaning. I enjoy the Passion of the Nerd's videos but an awful lot of what he says I think he is giving way too much credit for deeper purpose when the actual intent was just face value. You can read anything into anything - you can comb through anything and find something meaningful and make connections, especially once a piece of work is done and you can view it as a whole, that doesn't mean the creator knowingly put them there - especially if they were working on it week on week over a number of years.

TPOTN said in one of his videos 'nothing is accidental in these shows' ... and yet apparently Joss forgot Warren had died when he wrote the comics. Meaning that, yes, even Joss is capable of pretty big oversights. I think some things are probably accidental. I don't believe that Angel reading Albert Camus in Lovers Walk is representation of Joss' philosophical beliefs in absurdism and a hint to the wider themes of Angel the character, Amends or Angel the Series for example. I think the prop department found the most pretentious book they could lay heir hands on - and no matter what they had found, people who liked to read into things would have found something to read into it.
I think I've heard that Joss used to go over old episodes and look for things he could use in later seasons thus creating the illusion of foreshadowing when there had actually been none. That's fine - it's a clever way to work - but over the years people have been to quick to attribute genius to something that was just smart and so turned Joss into this master craftsman in the popular psyche when he was just good and that has given him a lot of freedom and power and massaged his ego at the same time.

I think, following this mass rebellion from the cast, the way we view the way the show has been put together and the way we look at its themes and messaging is going to change going forward. I think the acting and the quippy dialogue, the directing, the makeup and the story lines will still stand up and be applauded - but that people will start to realise it isn't actually a deep piece of philosophy showing us a genius' take on the human condition - it's just a very good T.V show.

 

[Taake]

*Controversial opinion* I have been thinking this since last summer, but didn't want to say, as I feared the backlash (which to me confirms why CC and others stayed quiet until there was/is strength in numbers) but... I don't think Joss is that much of a genius.
I never thought this at the time of watching, or when at uni, but in the last year, I have started to doubt that Joss set out to make a feminist show. I think the premise of the show was indeed to have a girl walk down an alleyway, face up to a monster and kick its ass, as Joss said, but I think the original foundation was as simple as that. Plus, that the monsters would represent daily struggles in life. I think Joss liked the 'cute/hot geek' girl too, and wanted to popularise that archetype / trope (note the first actress cast as Willow) hence the unusual 2 female: 1 male line up. I think the show evolved to have a feminist message and many writers contributed to that.

Not controversial, at least not here. 🙂 So feel safe stating it. Many of us have been saying that for years. Not that I don't think a lot of his work is great, but the genius thing was always an overstatement that neglected all the other people who worked on these shows and made them great.

 

[Lovetheearth]

Tony Head was asked about this on UK TV show This Morning

Buffy star Anthony Head 'had no idea' about Joss Whedon allegations on set

'How on earth did I not know this was going on?'

metro.co.uk

His reaction suggests he's interpreted MT's comments in the same way many people have here... That there was something of a sexually abusive nature happening whilst he was there (as opposed to on Angel, where he wasn't) and he's saddened that people didn't feel able to tell him as the father figure on the show. In which case, I imagine we will be hearing from JW's team in the coming days.

Ahh, I can't reply to your comment @Priceless. He just seems so cut up about it! To stay up all night racking his brain? He mentions possible temper losses and says that can happen to anyone, which I think would fall under bullying. And he says "This it not a man saying, I didn't see it, it didn't happen", and emphasising gender in it falls under #MeToo territory. I think, as a man, he probably is worried about the 'toxic' and 'not appropriate' environment being highlighted by lead actresses... I hadn't read AB and MT's comments like that personally!

 

[The Bronze]

See Anthony's comments get to the heart of what a massive grey area this sort of thing is. One person's loss of temper is another's abuse. How someone treats person X isn't necessarily how they treat person Y. Someone can act differently in private to a group setting.

Which is why I don't have any time for people criticising the men for not saying anything or SMG for not saying enough. If it wasn't your experience, you didn't witness any incidents then you should absolutely stay out of it and not muddy the waters.