Charles Gunn's contribution to AtS

T

Tucker's Cousin

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Just wondering what everybody's take on the Gunn character's contribution to Angel was.

It seemed to me that he was supposed to be a kind of Xanderesque character offering support to the other players who all had super-powers or super brains. It's nice having a normal guy in the series and I found I could really relate to Xander's character. But I don't think Gunn ever comes near to serving that purpose. I never really feel much either way about him. I certainly don't dislike him, though he has his moments like most characters in the 'verse, but I also wouldn't miss him much if he was to have been killed off after a season or two. He didn't offer anything vital during any of the several apocalypses they faced like Xander did. On the rare occasions he got an episode centered around him it was often somewhat negative as in Double or Nothing. Does anybody think he warranted being in the series for four seasons? If so, why?

Aside from Willow's jewishness, and assorted demons I guess, there are no other minorities respresented amongst the main casts of both shows, so it should be a good thing, not to mention appropriate, to have an African-American in the mix. But, it seems to me he was also given a bad racial stereotype being just 'the muscle' and then, when he was given the brain upload, he didn't handle that very responsibly. What is your opinion on this? Couldn't he have been a cool-science-nerd type of character from the outset instead of Fred? Or a powerful warlock, or electrically charged instead of Gwen? Or some other power? Coz' his regular-guy-doing-his-best thing didn't work for me like it did with Xander and the only African-American regular cast member should have been a strong, intelligent role model vital to the mix.

I don't actually have a problem with him being the show for four seasons, in fact there are often times when I feel very sorry for him because the writers didn't give him much of anything.
 
i think it would have been great if gunn was used a lot more...like maybe he could have stopped an apocalypse like xander did in 'grave'
i liked gunn as a character...he really changed and mellowed by the end of S4, compared to his entrance inS1. but in S5, my opinion of him changed. i think he could have handled the implant-thing better...yes, technically it cost fred her life, but, like angel said, he paid a high price for the upgrade, he could have at least put it to good use. after fred died, gunn kinda lost interest in the upgrade/legal stuff and reverted to S2 gunn...which i think was sort of a limbo period for him.
overall, i liked gunn as a character...he was sweet guy, and very loyal.
 
You bring up some interesting points. I have never been the biggest Gunn fan, being as how I am a huge, huge Wesley Fan. However the reason I liked Gunn was how much change he went through. He started out as this street tough guy and eventually turned into a character that always did what he thought was right. I didn't like him in season 4 that much, because like I said I am a Wes Fan and they didn't get along. In season 5 he pissed me off at first because of how he acted with that upload. Eventually though after what happened to Fred I felt bad for him. I liked how he stopped wearing a suit to the office and just was himself again. He was always smarter than he got credit for and was a major contributor to the show.
 
I would have loved seeing him expanded or used more in the begining, I like the actor alot. I think Gunn came full circle toward the end adn that was good.
 
I have to agree with MRFAITH, the scene with Anne was really good. It really went to the roots of not only the character, but the whole show to. It's about continueing to fight for what's right, Gunn embraced that idea. (Admittedly, he slipped up a few times, but that's only natural.) He fought for good, no matter what: no questions asked. Maybe he wasn't the smartest one in the bunch, or the strongest, both physically and emotionally.... but he did what he had to do nonetheless and in that sense his character is very positive.
 
M
Mulder22
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Allycat said:
I have to agree with MRFAITH, the scene with Anne was really good. It really went to the roots of not only the character, but the whole show to. It's about continueing to fight for what's right, Gunn embraced that idea. (Admittedly, he slipped up a few times, but that's only natural.) He fought for good, no matter what: no questions asked. Maybe he wasn't the smartest one in the bunch, or the strongest, both physically and emotionally.... but he did what he had to do nonetheless and in that sense his character is very positive.
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But why does he have to go back to the ghetto?
 
Because that's where he came from... in order for there to be a full circle, you have to return to the place you came from. It's what the whole "return to the womb" and "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" thing is about.
 
Allycat said:
Because that's where he came from... in order for there to be a full circle, you have to return to the place you came from. It's what the whole "return to the womb" and "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" thing is about.
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I think that's a load of bull. Then are you saying that Fred should have returned to Texas? Angel to Ireland or Spike and Wesley to London?

I don't think it was necessary for Gunn to return to the ghetto. If he wanted to get ahead in life so badly, he could have simply continued his education, while holding down a job. And he certainly did not have to do so in South Central Los Angeles.
 
yes, but Gunn still cared what happened down in his old neighborhood. He was always a little upset about leaving that place, but he knew it was the right thing for him to leave and help the A.I. team. Deep down I think he always wanted to go back to his roots and help out and make sure everything was going okay.
 
LadyLavinia said:
But why does he have to go back to the ghetto?
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As said before, he did not return to the ghetto just to go. He returned to an area where most of his life was spent as a changed man. That's what is good about humanity. After overcoming your difficulties, you can then return to the area that challenged you and try to make things for the better. Try to help those who were not as fortunate as you into successful humans.

Okay, I think Gunn was a major character in the show. I don't think he was only on the show to represent a minorty group not normally shown on the show. His character was introduced because the show needed a new and interesting character. What better to have somebody who had been fighting demons but was not involved supernaturally? I liked how Gunn seriously developed over the years, and showed great growth as a character. He became a character that you could really appreciate and relate to.
 
And why can't Spike, Angel, Wesley or Fred do the same?

Don't you see what I'm trying to say. For some reason, the ME writers thought it was necessary for Charles to return to the "ghetto" to achieve some kind of ephinany about himself. It wasn't. He didn't have to go back. But the ME writers insisted upon sending him back . . . unlike the other (white) characters.

I don't think he was only on the show to represent a minorty group not normally shown on the show.
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I think he was. And the ME writers' handling of his character showed it.
 
LadyLavinia said:
And why can't Spike, Angel, Wesley or Fred do the same?

Don't you see what I'm trying to say. For some reason, the ME writers thought it was necessary for Charles to return to the "ghetto" to achieve some kind of ephinany about himself. It wasn't. He didn't have to go back. But the ME writers insisted upon sending him back . . . unlike the other (white) characters.



I think he was. And the ME writers' handling of his character showed it.
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I do understand what you are trying to say. But, in all honesty, Gunn was from the street, and that's where he felt like returning. Think about all that went on in his life on the street. That's why he returned, because a huge part of his life was spent there. It would be very pointless for other characters to return to their roots, because their lives did not depend on those settings.
 
I'm still a little lost as to how Gunn is looked at as a Xander like character. Gunn may not have 'su[er-powers' but he is certainly the best fighter in the whole Buffy cannon... why do i say this. Because without super strength or senses, as nothing but a human being, he was able to take on, what, hundreds of vamps in 'Not fade Away'. Any human who can do that is beyond just being 'the muscle'... he a fighting god. Sure Wes can take on two at a time on a good day, we've seen Giles hold his own, Principle Wood was decent, but Gunn, of all the fully human characters, could kick the most demon ass pound for pound.

But ignoring Gunn 'the muscle', we can also see Gunn the mentally powerful, the ambitious, and many times even the voice of reason. He might not have been a science geek or a demon expert but he was always a really smart character. We get convinced sometimes that he wasn't because he was so insecure about it, but it's all the Scarecrow Syndrome... he had brains coming out of his ears, just maybe not the fancy degree.
 
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