Climate Warming

Starlet

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Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
471
Age
36
Location
Poland
I've been worried about greenhouse effect and changes of climate for some time. This is not only because of all this talking in media but from my own observations. In past few years our winters got a lot more mild than usual and summers less warm. Each year there is less and less snow( this winter we had almost nothing of it). Besides in this and previous year we had really strong gales in Poland . It didn't use to happen before and even my parents were surprised with it. I know that small changes in climate are natural and few colder years can be followed by few warmer but it seems to me that every year since 2003(2004 maybe) is warmer and I don't know when it's coming to and end.
So I'm really worried it might be connected to greenhouse effect.

What do you guys think? And what does it look like in other countries?

Nerd4hire promised me to show me that I'm wrong with my theory.
I have to say I'd really like to be wrong with that because this is kinda freaking me out.
 
OK if somebody is around who knows how this argument works on a larger scale he's going bit me in the butt with bitter rebuttal (good pun eh?), but what you're worried about is localized weather, so that's what I have to talk about to alleviate your fears.

The weather where I am has been cold, and miserable all winter, spring, and up until now, summer. We got our first taste of summer today. Two weeks ago they were hauling triathlon athletes into the medivac unit to be treated for hypothermia. All across the region farmers are complaining about the shortened growing season. There was snow this winter in parts of the Arabian gulf. Thousands of people died around the globe this winter from record cold temperatures. China was particularly hard hit.

Globally there's been no warming since 1998. It's been cooling since 2002. If you use satellite temperatures you can show cooling graphically from 1997. From January 2008 to May 2008 satellite temps recorded the largest dip downward in the Global Mean in the temperature record.

Now that doesn't mean there hasn't been warm pockets. I believe the east coast of America had a heat spell awhile ago, and I think the American mid-south has been hot over all the last few years. Over-all the world has been cooling recently though.

You speak in terms of "climate change", and that tells me you've been listening to the mainstream media. They lie. They lie, because they don't tell the full truth. Climate Change is a BS term. Yes there is climate change. Of course, there is. If climate didn't change it wouldn't be climate. What we're really talking about though is Global Warming. The alarmists who want to scare you on global warming had to change the term over to climate change some years ago, because the world as a whole was starting to cool.

My advise to you is enjoy the sunshine while you've got it. 🙂
 
Pretty soon,this is also going to be a problem in many other areas,not just in changing climates.

Recently,the U.S.' intelligence agencies did an assessment of how global climate change is going to affect the U.S.

Their findings:

*Increases in illegal immigration(oh,great...now we'll get to hear Lou Dobbs bitch even more on-air about this;just not how HE benefits)

*Serious instability and hunger in Africa

*Migration from the Carribean.

*California may very well see hundreds of plant species disappear by the end of this century.

*It can destabilize fragile governments.

*Increased precipitation in Central America.

And that's just some of what they predicted.
 
Here's an interesting little fact that I read in the news lately: (take it with a grain of salt if you prefer. It sounds kinda far fetched to me, but if it's true...) There is something like 5 times more methane gas produced by livestock than by industry and the private sector combined. We could solve global warming just by either going vegetarian or mixing Gas-X in with the cattle, pig, and chicken feed.
 
B
Blondie Bear
They looked at that on Mythbusters. Apparently it's not enough to matter.
Ckg 927. That only matters if the science is unchallenged as valid. I and many others (in fact more each day) suggest that is not the case. We suggest the science is not settled. I personally go farther than that, and suggest the science, plain and simple, doesn't make sense. It reads more like a snake oil sales pitch.

ILoveBuffy check this one out...

'No concrete global warming proof in polar region' - Climate Change Fraud - Because the debate is not over

White Avenger, OK so what you've got there is another solution of deceptive, seeming simplicity, and no viability which proposes to solve an imaginary problem.

I'll give you an example of what I mean by that. You're familiar with the Kyoto accord, I assume. OK so all these countries meet, and they agree some countries should pay other countries for initiatives which will, they assume, cut CO2 from the atmosphere. One of the initiatives they agree on is Biofuels. Countries like Indonesia and Brazil immediately step up the destruction of the rain forest to lay plots for Palm oil, or Sugar Cane. Massive amounts of CO2 are released into the atmosphere as the refuse is burned. And now the science appears to suggest there is no noticeable saving in Carbon emissions through use of biofuels in the manner they're presently obtained, and used. Plus the price of food has been rising worldwide, and that's at least partially caused by agricultural land being used to grow biofuels. There have been food riots around the world in some poorer countries, and biofuels are being pointed at as on of the major bad guys causing the problem.

And again, all this is based on what a progressively growing group of skeptics are calling bad science.
 
white avenger
white avenger
Viable or not, I said at the first that I didn't take it as gospel, I just thought that someone might find it as humerous s I did.
My thoughts? We have what -- roughly 100 years or so of reliable, reasonably complete, fairly accurate records of climate and temperature? In addition, we have general evidence across a variety of scientific disciplines that suggests that large-scale climate change happened long before humans appeared on the scene and continued long after. Sometimes, the world is in a warming trend in which vast oceans and seas cover the land. Other times, it is in a cooling trend in which the terrain is covered and marked by glaciers. These trends last for centuries (or longer) and are thought to have prompted or encouraged great evolutionary change as species either adapted to change or died out. That being the case, I'm not so sure that our puny records of single-digit average temperature changes over a decade or two are really much to go by. Honestly, any averages with which we come up amount to tiny little drops in the proverbial bucket. We just haven't had adequate measuring devices and/or standards of measurement and/or easily accessible records for all that long.

Also, I think it's a lot of hype. The climate changes. We know that. That's part of how we get lush forests and barren deserts that were once seas. That's how we get canyons and valleys and whatnot. Over time, species either change right along with the landscape or die out. That's what science tells us, anyway. I distrust science that, based on current and/or contemporary warming and cooling trends, paints doomsday scenarios over relatively short periods of time. Maybe I've just got my head stuck in the sand, but I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the relative evolutionary eyeblink that is the industrial period of human history is likely to cause widespread, irreversible climate change with the potential to devastate entire populations of Earth's flora and fauna (including that of humanity). I think it is much more likely that we are witnessing the beginning of a perfectly natural climate change that only feels like "change" to us because we don't have recorded temperatures for the last time this happened.

Finally, even if recent human activity has contributed to climate change that may facilitate a mass extinction and drastically change the types of species present on Earth, I have a hard time finding that to be inherently unnatural. Species do what they do. Sometimes, too many of one type of species changes the food chain and wipes out many other species by both direct and indirect means. That's perfectly natural. If our species creates climate-altering waste and proliferates at a rate that has a negative impact on the populations of other species, then so be it. That's just mother nature at work. Our job is to figure out how to make sure we adapt with the changing world so that we don't die out, not to figure out how to keep the world looking as close as possible to how it would look if humans, with their natural tendency to adapt by altering their immediate environments, had never walked it. Why would we even want to do that? Why does everyone just assume that the effect that humans have on the environment is bad and/or unnatural? Maybe we're doing exactly what we were supposed to do. Just as the dinosaurs before us paved the way for mammals, maybe we're paving the way for some other form of life.
 
B
Blondie Bear
I mostly agree with you, though I do think we should try to take care of the earth, if only for our own selfish reasons.
Here's an interesting little fact that I read in the news lately: (take it with a grain of salt if you prefer. It sounds kinda far fetched to me, but if it's true...) There is something like 5 times more methane gas produced by livestock than by industry and the private sector combined. We could solve global warming just by either going vegetarian or mixing Gas-X in with the cattle, pig, and chicken feed.

Actually the UNCCP (United Nations Climate Change Panel) has stated in a study that livestock worldwide contributes 19% to GHG emmisions.
As for the 100-150 years of recorded weather apparently the climate fear mongers have lowered the usage of this collected data to the last 75 years. Why?
As for climate change before man became erect and mastered fire one thing I have found absolutely amazing is as little as 10,000 years ago (a mere second of time to planet earth considering it's age) the city of Chicago was under 10 feet of ice. What caused it to disappear? Also every 10 years the planet's axis leans 1/2 a degree closer to the sun. I believe it reverses after a thousand years (if I remember correctly).
And as for Kyoto it is a mere "wealth distribution" scheme. Rich countries pay developing or poor countries gobs of money so they can develop but there is no regulation on how they develop. Just look at the increased gas demand in China and India. India has just this year rolled out a car that can be bought for under $2500 dollars. China builds about 25 coal fired power plants a year.
One natural phenom that is not widely studied or discussed in any of the literature I have read is the effect of volcanoes and the amount of GHG they emit. The only thing I have read is a mere 2 minute eruption puts more GHG into the atmosphere then developed countries put into the atmosphere over a one year period. Last I checked volcanoes erupt longer then 2 minutes.
That said I too believe we need to take care of what we have. It is sorta like the old saying "God put you on earth to walk so many miles so why run? You only shorten the time you have on earth." So as I renovate my home I use the most recent green eco-friendly products, I turn the thermostat up in the summer and down in the winter, I have replaced all light bulbs with CFL's and I recycle what my program where I live allows. I think if the fear mongers just ramp it down a notch or two people will use common sense. So as a global community we will have a greater positive effect on GHG reductions by voluntarily doing the little things instead of having a group ram it down our throats that we need to save the planet now no matter what the cost or economic consequences.
 
Let's make this really simple.
It is beyond hubris to believe man can tame nature or even affect it beyond a minuscule measurement.
Forest preservation (old growth) leads to wildfires that end up being far more devastating because they are not thinned out.
Warm temperatures = economic growth; longer growing seasons, etc. Warm temperatures = less climate variation and thus less storms (warm meets cold).
These are self-evident facts. Nature will shrug off any attempts to prevent change and laugh about it.
Are you aware of what degree the overall global temperature change is - over the last century? Less than 1/2 of a degree Celsius.

The Global Warming Scare is nothing less than shameful and completely irresponsible yellow journalism to advance political careers, secure increased governmental funding (if it's not of immediate concern the funding line is really long and woe to the dissenting voice preventing attainment of funding), create "news" to sell newspapers/fill up airtime in this age of massive media choice and to the environmental movement the main focus to abandon technology. It has turned into a doomsday religion for these reasons and others - including a failure in conventional religions for satisfaction. It is the new age Scientology in more than just similarity in name. L. Ron Hubbard would be proud.
 
I don't know what I think about this (okay, I do know what I think about this, and it tends to side with WE'RE NOT CAUSING IT, though I'm open to having my mind changed by some very convincing evidence), but I do think that if the people *coughAlGorecough* who are so up in arms about this really cared, they'd move their houses back from the coast before rising sea levels eat them and stop flying private jets everywhere.
 
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