Washburne
Protector of the key.
Just out curiousity, which countries may benefit from compulsary voting and which wouldn´t? Is there something in common about the countires in either group?
Compulsory Voting - Yay? Nay?
- Thread starter Aleris
- Start date
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
The United States is supposed to be a free society, one in which the rights of citizens are limited only by due process and the equal rights of others. We do not always live up to that standard, but the vast majority of our history is the story of our constant struggle to come closer to those ideals even in the face of contemporary realities and complications. As such, I am against laws that render *any* action compulsory, especially democratic acts like voting, holding office, volunteering for military duty, etc. The idea of government mandated voting is not at all in line with the values on which the nation was founded. Voting is a right. As such, it is our choice to take advantage of that right or to abstain from voting. Voting is and should be something that free people do for themselves and for the benefit of their country, not for fear of fines and jail time. If people vote for fear of the consequences that will be imposed on them by the government for abstaining, then those people are not truly free and not truly representative of a government by and for the people.
I am an American, so let me tell you how I felt yesterday. It was one of the most exciting, most joy-filled, most awe inspiring days that I have seen in years. Everyone I met in the streets or in the various shops in which I stopped while running my errands before work smiled and waved at me. We asked one another whether or not we each voted. We proudly displayed our "I Voted" stickers. We talked about how exciting the results were going to be. Time permitting, we even engaged in political discussion and debate. I could not help but feel exhilarated as I spoke of voting with a passer-by, a grocery store clerk, my sister, my mother, a Quick Stop owner, a delivery man, a manager, a book buyer, an I.T. guy, and a host of various book store employees and customers. Some of these people were immigrants. Some were old. Some were young. Some were men. Some were women. Some were black, white, Hispanic, Native American, Philippino, or representative of other races, ethnicities, and various combinations thereof. Some were Jewish, Christian, Athiest, Agnostic, or of other or unknown religious inclinations. All, however, were voters and all of their votes counted equally. What an amazing thing that is! Even with all of our nation's faults, and there are many, I could not help but feel proud to be a part of the country that pioneered this concept in the modern world and then expanded it over time to include so many people from so many different walks of life. Everyone on the face of this planet who votes does so at least in part because the U.S. first overthrew monarchic rule in favor of democracy all of those years ago. Every non-white, non-male, non-land-owning, and/or under-21-year-old citizen who voted yesterday (and the vast majority of us fall into at least one of those categories) did so because we did not stop with that first Revolution, but kept claiming that right for more and more citizens. Yesterday, I felt proud to be an American for the first time since we went to war in Afghanistan. Yesterday, I was reminded that we still do some things right. Bestowing our citizens with the right to vote is one of those things.
Voting should not be compulsory. It isn't just about the decisions we make when we vote; it's about having the *right* to make those decisions. We should vote because we are free to do so, not because we are forced.
I am an American, so let me tell you how I felt yesterday. It was one of the most exciting, most joy-filled, most awe inspiring days that I have seen in years. Everyone I met in the streets or in the various shops in which I stopped while running my errands before work smiled and waved at me. We asked one another whether or not we each voted. We proudly displayed our "I Voted" stickers. We talked about how exciting the results were going to be. Time permitting, we even engaged in political discussion and debate. I could not help but feel exhilarated as I spoke of voting with a passer-by, a grocery store clerk, my sister, my mother, a Quick Stop owner, a delivery man, a manager, a book buyer, an I.T. guy, and a host of various book store employees and customers. Some of these people were immigrants. Some were old. Some were young. Some were men. Some were women. Some were black, white, Hispanic, Native American, Philippino, or representative of other races, ethnicities, and various combinations thereof. Some were Jewish, Christian, Athiest, Agnostic, or of other or unknown religious inclinations. All, however, were voters and all of their votes counted equally. What an amazing thing that is! Even with all of our nation's faults, and there are many, I could not help but feel proud to be a part of the country that pioneered this concept in the modern world and then expanded it over time to include so many people from so many different walks of life. Everyone on the face of this planet who votes does so at least in part because the U.S. first overthrew monarchic rule in favor of democracy all of those years ago. Every non-white, non-male, non-land-owning, and/or under-21-year-old citizen who voted yesterday (and the vast majority of us fall into at least one of those categories) did so because we did not stop with that first Revolution, but kept claiming that right for more and more citizens. Yesterday, I felt proud to be an American for the first time since we went to war in Afghanistan. Yesterday, I was reminded that we still do some things right. Bestowing our citizens with the right to vote is one of those things.
Voting should not be compulsory. It isn't just about the decisions we make when we vote; it's about having the *right* to make those decisions. We should vote because we are free to do so, not because we are forced.
Angelic Slayer
Daydream Believer
I can see why some people would say "yay", especially with such poor voting turnouts some times. But I think that part of the whole idea of democracy is having the right to choose whether or not you want to vote. I think that doing so is a good idea, and I plan to turn out for any election that comes my way, but there are a lot of people out there that don't have the same ideas. A lot of people just don't agree with what ANY of their candidates are saying, so they decide to refrain from voting rather than giving support to someone that has opposing beliefs.
I think that too it would depend on the system. Here in Canada, our parliament is run on parties. IE: Bob is the head of the Liberal Party (Federal Level). Jane is a member of the Liberal Party who is running for your local representative. On your ballod, you can only vote for "Jane: Liberal Party" or other local candidates. The Prime Minister (aka President) is decided based on how many candidates from each party win in each local reigion. So working from the above example: if the Conservatives manage to snag 100 "seats" and the Liberals get 160 "seats": Bob (head of the Liberal Party) will be your next Prime Minister!
There are other parties involved and such, but that's basically how it works. So a person is faced with the choice of voting for either (1) The Person that they think would run the country best, (2) The person that they think would look after their local area best, or (3) The party that they think would look after the country best. Which again, can make for a really tough decision and can turn a lot of people off for voting.
They may love the "X" party of Canada but disagree with their local candidate of the "X" party so much that they refuse to give them support. PLUS, especially in smaller areas like mine: I might really love to vote for a party and there's no one in my area who is running for them (this quite often happens with the Green and Bloc Parties) that means that I can't vote. If I only have three candidates running for three parties in my teeney tiny area, and there's six options federally, I have no way to vote for any of the other three parties.
It's tough to explain, but what I'm getting at is that I understand trying to get more people to vote. But I also can see why a lot of people wouldn't want to. And especially with the kind of voting system we have (where it's VERY easy to not like any of the options for who you can vote for) I just don't think that it would be right to punish people for making the choice not to vote. 🙂
I think that too it would depend on the system. Here in Canada, our parliament is run on parties. IE: Bob is the head of the Liberal Party (Federal Level). Jane is a member of the Liberal Party who is running for your local representative. On your ballod, you can only vote for "Jane: Liberal Party" or other local candidates. The Prime Minister (aka President) is decided based on how many candidates from each party win in each local reigion. So working from the above example: if the Conservatives manage to snag 100 "seats" and the Liberals get 160 "seats": Bob (head of the Liberal Party) will be your next Prime Minister!
There are other parties involved and such, but that's basically how it works. So a person is faced with the choice of voting for either (1) The Person that they think would run the country best, (2) The person that they think would look after their local area best, or (3) The party that they think would look after the country best. Which again, can make for a really tough decision and can turn a lot of people off for voting.
They may love the "X" party of Canada but disagree with their local candidate of the "X" party so much that they refuse to give them support. PLUS, especially in smaller areas like mine: I might really love to vote for a party and there's no one in my area who is running for them (this quite often happens with the Green and Bloc Parties) that means that I can't vote. If I only have three candidates running for three parties in my teeney tiny area, and there's six options federally, I have no way to vote for any of the other three parties.
It's tough to explain, but what I'm getting at is that I understand trying to get more people to vote. But I also can see why a lot of people wouldn't want to. And especially with the kind of voting system we have (where it's VERY easy to not like any of the options for who you can vote for) I just don't think that it would be right to punish people for making the choice not to vote. 🙂
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
See this is the problem, most people don't make the choice not to vote, the can't be bothered to vote.
IF people chose not to because they didn't agree with something or what not fair game, but its mainly down to sheer laziness and also, I would say, lack of understanding AND lack of wanting to understand.
Politics is possibly the most influencial thing in our lives, yet in the UK you have to CHOOSE to study politics in public schools after the age of 16 YET at 11 we are FORCED to learn how to make a scarf!
I believe that from the age of 11, every child should be taught Politics from both an historical and present day stand point to truly allow students understanding of how it affects their lives.
IF that was the case I wouldn't advocate compulsory, but until that time I do as a means to get people involved and understanding.
IF people chose not to because they didn't agree with something or what not fair game, but its mainly down to sheer laziness and also, I would say, lack of understanding AND lack of wanting to understand.
Politics is possibly the most influencial thing in our lives, yet in the UK you have to CHOOSE to study politics in public schools after the age of 16 YET at 11 we are FORCED to learn how to make a scarf!
I believe that from the age of 11, every child should be taught Politics from both an historical and present day stand point to truly allow students understanding of how it affects their lives.
IF that was the case I wouldn't advocate compulsory, but until that time I do as a means to get people involved and understanding.
Washburne
Protector of the key.
Which once again makes me wonder. Are we the only country with the option of voting but not on any of the candidates? It´s a difference between being lazy and unsatisfied.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
See I can imagine you're sat at home, probably alone, right now laughing to yourself because you think you've been absolutely hilarious and also making a point, but the thing is, to annoy someone they have to be invested in this and I am far from invested.
Oh well, kudos for trying.
E
Edmund Blackadder
Thanks for participating with your 'opinion'
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
You have mistaken interested for invested.
I am interested in the discussion BUT I am not invested in it emotionally hence no annoyance.
Since I must admit that I have skipped to vote some times I guess I have to say nay...
To be honest I had no idea that voting was compulsory in some countries.
Seems strange to me, don't see the point of forcing people to vote.
/SK
To be honest I had no idea that voting was compulsory in some countries.
Seems strange to me, don't see the point of forcing people to vote.
/SK
Thank you so much for engaging. See, this shows real interest, not just your usual immature bickering.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Umm 'usual immature bickering'.
I think you will find my USUAL stance is to engage, and in the few occasions that I do embark on a bit of 'immature bickering' big deal.
I don't think its your place to try and derail a thread that has had nothing of the sort of behaviour. on the contrary, makes you look a little foolish and rather amusing for what could be seen as baiting.
Now, if you wouldn't mind, a rather interesting conversation with many actual points and opinions is going on and it would be appreciated if we could get back to that.
Thanks
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
And in the spirit of moving forward, let me add that I believe the last question posed was in regard to the purpose of compulsory voting.
Why force unwilling citizens to engage? The risk of *no one* turning out for the vote is rather slim. Why would any democracy -- or, rather, those citizens who care enough to run it -- want those who don't care about or understand the current political climate to be forced to cast ballots, especially considering the fact that such ballots have the potential to overshadow the votes of of those engaged, informed voters who vote willingly?
Why force unwilling citizens to engage? The risk of *no one* turning out for the vote is rather slim. Why would any democracy -- or, rather, those citizens who care enough to run it -- want those who don't care about or understand the current political climate to be forced to cast ballots, especially considering the fact that such ballots have the potential to overshadow the votes of of those engaged, informed voters who vote willingly?
Interesting that you think that citizens actually run a democracy. I rather imagined that it was those who were voted into power by delusioned voters that pulled the strings on the comedy called democracy. At least on the behest of their present financial benefactors and future potential employers.
Aleris
Cosmic String!
I kind of feel that everyone should have a say in how the country that they live in is being run.
"Democracy" issues aside. I actualyl feel very strongly that if you live anywhere - WHICH EVERYONE DOES (duh) - everyone has an opinion (whether that opinion is better/more informed/whatever than the next person) on what should happen within this place that you live. It's about making that opinion heard.
That and I don't think I'd be too happy with people complaining about current government if they were too slack to go vote.
"Democracy" issues aside. I actualyl feel very strongly that if you live anywhere - WHICH EVERYONE DOES (duh) - everyone has an opinion (whether that opinion is better/more informed/whatever than the next person) on what should happen within this place that you live. It's about making that opinion heard.
That and I don't think I'd be too happy with people complaining about current government if they were too slack to go vote.