Conner and nature vs. nurture

[caritas08]

I am curious what you guys think about Conner and the issue of nature vs. nurture.

I lean toward the belief that people will eventually turn out the same, give or take, no matter what type of upbringing they have. Like the little boy in I've Got You Under My Skin. I don't think his parents could have done anything different to help him be a better person. I also think that nature over nurture is the only way you can explain how some people who are abused as children grow up and commit their lives to helping people while others grow up and continue the abusive cycle.

To get back to Conner, do you really think that all it took to undo all his pain and hatred was a memory switch? He already killed that innocent girl for Jasmine/Cordelia and I firmly believe he would have gone through and killed all those innocent people at the station. If he was capable of mass murdering innocents who's to say he won't eventually end up on that path again? Give or take 30 years. And when he got his memories back how come he didn't become all hateful, murder people, and blame Angel for everything again?


This is not meant to be a Conner bashing thread. I'm not talking about any other character trait of Conner's other than he is capable of killing innocent people and if you think a different upbringing changes that.

(Please don't use that "He had a hard life and was going through a lot" excuse. Every character on every Joss show has experienced incredible loss and been through a lot).

 

[T.I.P]

But it was because he had a hard life and went through alot. Some characters went through worse than others.
Look at what Connor went through. He lived in a hell dimension. Was brought up on lies and his mind twisted by the only person he's ever known, all by 16 years old. Maybe Connors just weaker and dosent handle this stuff at all well. But to say 'who's to say he would massacre people in 30 years from now' makes no sense. Depending on the type of person you are, and what you go through, who's to say if the situation arises you or me couldnt be capable of something like what Connor done?
But then again, im one of those people that firmly believe that the way people turn out is almost all circumstantial.

 

[MSchett]

(Please don't use that "He had a hard life and was going through a lot" excuse. Every character on every Joss show has experienced incredible loss and been through a lot).

Yeah but none of them experienced this during there childhood now did they 😉

but i have i doubt hes going to kill anyone after his memory spell thingy even after he got his memory back he accepted what Angel had done for him... Really all Connor needed was a normal childhood to turn him into a productive member of society

 

[LorneyTunes]

Well I think it does help if you lead a child on the right path but its really there choice though in the end .

Connor isn't stupid he learns from his mistakes hence, when he got his memories back he didn't become that broken teen we all know and love again x

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

Well I think anyone can basically go any way, so most things lie in nurture.
Of course there are some things that are just nature; I believe there have been some studies with twins that grew up apart from each other, have never met but still had very much in common. I'm a little shaky on the exact data, but I think my paedagogics teacher back from school mentioned that the balance between nature and nurture is about 50/50. 50% is still a lot for nurture. And now let's look at how Connor was raised. He grew up in a Hell Dimension, and even after he was back his life was not really that super. It can't get much worse, so it's hardly surprising Connor turned out the way he did.
Also, I believe, we are all born more or less neutral, though we also have the potential in us for both good and evil. Assuming this is more or less true, it has to be nurture that triggers evil.
So yup, I think if Connor had grown up differently, he wouldn't have become the Connor we saw in s4.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I think, in the really real world, how a person turns out is a mix of nature and nurture. There are things--genes, if you will, though we haven't found them yet--that dictate how the brain works and hence dictates behavior. BUT, being treated a certain way can make you act a certain way. And people can choose to act against their nature. I know a person who claims to be a sociopath--he really doesn't empathize with people and his emotional range tends to fall in anger and depression, and he often seriously considers hurting and even killing people if he feels that he has a good reason. Guess what? He doesn't do it. Sure, it's because he doesn't want to get caught and go to jail, but he has to REMIND himself that it's wrong. So his nature is telling him one thing, but the way he was raised (and his own selfish self-interest) keeps him from acting on that nature.

As for Connor, I think that nature and nurture collided to make him a very screwed-up young man. And the writers didn't help one jot.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I think Connor was still very messed up. He may not remember what he did, but he is still capable of everything that he did. Just look at how quickly and happily he took up the challenge of killing Sahjan. No normal, well adjusted kid would have responded like that. I really feel that Angel did no more than paper over the cracks. Sure, experience and situation has a lot to do with how you will react to a situation, but Connor was still incredibly volatile. If he was put in an extremely stressful situation, it's likely that he would go down that road again. Angel merely removed him from such situations.

 

[caritas08]

I think Connor was still very messed up. He may not remember what he did, but he is still capable of everything that he did. Just look at how quickly and happily he took up the challenge of killing Sahjan. No normal, well adjusted kid would have responded like that. I really feel that Angel did no more than paper over the cracks. Sure, experience and situation has a lot to do with how you will react to a situation, but Connor was still incredibly volatile. If he was put in an extremely stressful situation, it's likely that he would go down that road again. Angel merely removed him from such situations.

I really agree with your post. I understand a childhood like Conner's would certainly mess you up, but I think many people would just become depressed, withdrawn, or suicidal, without trying to take the rest of the world with them.

 

[OldSwede]

Since this is more or less my area of professional expertise (some of you may remember I'm supposed to be a university professor in biology rather than a professional Buffy fan) I guess I shouldn't just lurk.

Just wanted to say that indeed there is plenty of evidence (especially from identical twins split at birth and raised in different environments) that human behaviour has a genetic component, so a point for "nature". But there is of course also plenty of evidence for the importance of upbringing, or "nurture". Human beings are complex, and it's not just that nature and nurture mix, they also interact.

That is, one person is born with a genetic setup that will make them respond differently to a particular upbringing than another person. It's like body fat: you can't get fat if you starve, but some people get fat much more easily than others. With behaviour it's much more complex and behaviour is probably influenced by many different genes that themselves interact with each other.

Did that make any sense to you?