Connor's Potential

C

celestialarrow

the girl above all
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
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Okay this might be a little different because I've sensed a bit of Connor hate with good reason but I thought I'd take a different road and open an discussion of what might have been. While Connor became a very broody, angry, and disturbed young man I never got why they decided to go that route with the character.

Season 5 and his first appearance are my favorite version of the character I always believed if they'd made him in a sense what Illyria was in season 5 the character would have faired better. Meaning a super being from a hell dimension whose experienced unspeakable torment and torture but bounced back instead of being consumed by it.

Exploring Connor's experiences to a new world attempting to find a sense of normalcy it could have made great storying. Instead he was the object of being used by others in Season 3 and 4 he never developed his on individuality which hurt the character. As a warrior from a child in Quor-toth I just thought he'd be more.

I still believe if the character was given good enough material by the end of Angel enough fans would have backed him to spark his own spin off series featuring an ensemble of recurring characters throughout the Buffy-verse.
 
His return in S5 felt like a completely new Connor (well he was; normal no hang ups) which I happened to like, it's a shame it took 2 seasons for me to come to like him. I love the whole storyline of Connor etc, but they so could of taken him down a better storyline path, where more fan's would of come to love him. He was Angel's son, you would think more people should like him because of that fact, but because of how the writer's decided to take Connor that wasn't the case.
 
Lilah said:
His return in S5 felt like a completely new Connor (well he was; normal no hang ups) which I happened to like, it's a shame it took 2 seasons for me to come to like him. I love the whole storyline of Connor etc, but they so could of taken him down a better storyline path, where more fan's would of come to love him. He was Angel's son, you would think more people should like him because of that fact, but because of how the writer's decided to take Connor that wasn't the case.
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In many ways Connor's like the Jason Todd of the Buffyverse.

While I can understand his anger in S03, and that whole season was just awesome, I (like you) believe they made some questionable choices with s04 (which is my least favorite season of all).

They should have resolved Angel and Connor's problems in Season 04. He should've been the likeable, no baggage, no brooding Connor we saw in S5 sooner. Because that character had lots of potential. Lots.
 
I loved his character when we first saw the teenage him in "A New World". He was a savage, almost an animal, bred to kill and with absolutely no concept of how the world works, continuing to hunt like he did in Quar'toth whilst trying to reconcile this new world and the new discoveries within it, that contradicted everything he'd ever known. For that one episode, he was a brilliant character with amazing potential.

Then he became a typical, whiny, immature, gullible teenager with a serious Oedipus complex. S5 Connor was kinda cool, but the greatest loss of potential came right at the start.
 
Tome
Tome
Totally agree on the whiny and immature part :)
I wouldn't have minded the darker sides to him, but I wish they would've made him more complex or, er balanced. Sure I like him more in SEason 5 (the little bit we get to see of him), but he is who he is essentially because of Angel's memory eraser spell thingey. I'd like to see more of a struggle for redemption thing, like we do with so many other Whedon characters. I would not have minded seeing him conflicted, I mean, he was raised in a hellish dimension by somebody who hated Angel. Even if he came to accept Angel as his father & love him, I would be OK with the teenage metaphor of parental conflict if it weren't so one-sided. I don't know many teens who literally, simply, solely hate their parents. It's usually a mixed bag of feelings.

So, all that to say that I agree with all of you that his character could've been fleshed out better. If they had devoted time to that in season 4 instead of, say, Jasmine [gag], how cool would that have been? Of course, I haven't yet read ATF or any other post-ATS comics, so I'm hoping that Connor does progress more as a character there.
 
I really do believe you should read the comics, Connor gets a good chunk of character progression. With the old memories back, he has to find out who he is and what he stands for... good stuff. I especially like his monologue in issue #28 where talks about his "two lives"... the real one in Quor'Toth and the fake one his father gives him. Anyone who thinks Connor had potential should read them, he really fights hard to be a real champion and fullfil his potential.
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Connor Holtz said:
I really do believe you should read the comics, Connor gets a good chunk of character progression. With the old memories back, he has to find out who is and what he stands... good stuff. I especially like his monologue in issue #28 where talks about his "two lives"... the real one in Quor'Toth and the fake one his father gives him. Anyone who thinks Connor had potential should read them, he really fights hard to be a real champion and fullfil his potential.
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I agree, even though I liked Connor on the show, I love him so much more after reading the comics. He really grows in the comics, you start seeing it in After the Fall and much more so in Issue #28 and on.

But even on the show, I think people are harsh on Connor. I think bringing him back and having him act any other way would have been weird. He grew up in one of the worst hell dimensions and who know's what he went through, I can't see him coming back as anything other then damaged.
 
Connor Holtz said:
I really do believe you should read the comics, Connor gets a good chunk of character progression. With the old memories back, he has to find out who he is and what he stands for... good stuff. I especially like his monologue in issue #28 where talks about his "two lives"... the real one in Quor'Toth and the fake one his father gives him. Anyone who thinks Connor had potential should read them, he really fights hard to be a real champion and fullfil his potential.
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Yeah, I know I need to read it, just don't know when I'll have the time LOL! Maybe after this current Angel/Buffy re-watch.

So, don't tell me details please!, but does his relationship with Angel improve or change at all?
 
Without getting too specific, occasionally they fall back into old patterns but overall, it's vastly improved.
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Tome
Tome
Hey there mobile dude.
Honestly when Connor came back from Quortoth I was a little underwhelmed by him. From the beginning of season four up until the whole Oedipus thing I started to warm up to him really..then I promptly cataloged him irredeemable as a character. But once he showed up in season five I was completely behind seeing where his character went; and here's why

A. Liam is born and raised in Ireland in the 1700's and in his younger days is a petulant
brat who hates his father.
B. Connor is born and then summarily raised in a hell dimension by Holtz and is taught
to hate his father.

A. Liam is led astray by Darla and becomes a vampire who commits horrible acts.
B. Connor is led astray by Jasmine (in a Cordy suit.) and commits questionable and
horrible acts.

A. Angelus is ensouled and allowed a chance at peace/redemption.
B. Connor is given a new life and family by Angel; allowing for a chance at
peace/redemption.

A. Angel achieves perfect happiness and is summarily turned back into Angelus.
B. Wesley breaks the spell; forcing Connor to remember his past life.

A. Angel is finally re-ensouled and strives to reconcile his dual natures.
B. Connor bonds with Angel and strives to reconcile his dual natures.

Father and son both have a separate side which is always under the surface. Both made poor choices for groin buddies. I have heard that Spike and Connor bond a bit in the comics; (still need to pick up the rest of them.) if so that only adds to my anticipation. Two men who Angel/Angelus was a father figure to; hated him with a fiery passion, both have since "warmed" to him.
 
X
xfivebyfive
Groin buddies lmao but seriously nice post :)
brinkster130
brinkster130
[No message]
I liked Connor, but I felt the writers constantly made him either confused, misinformed or brainwashed, we rarely ever got to see Connor in his right frame of mind. I think that Connor could have been an "X factor" in the seasons he was in, very similar to how Angel was in Buffy or Spike in AtS. He could have been the brooding badass who who isolates himself, but still helps the Fang Gang, unfortunately they gave up on him.
 
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