Controversial opinion - The Body is overrated

I remember being struck by that particular scene where Buffy looks out the back door. The silence, but the sounds of life carrying on in the background; and her world has stopped.

I remember having those exact moments.
Tara's line, "It's always sudden". I still have those moments. I watch this episode and I remember the day, the days after, what I was doing, the stopping of my world, and everyone else's continuing to turn. My world continuing to turn slower than everyone else's.

This time of year is particularly bad for me because this is the time of year my mom was at her final decline, all wrapped up in fake holiday joy. I don't remember my last "normal" holiday season. I have begun to feel depressed already, not even really thinking about it, but my subconscious feeling it.

I love that this episode includes that holiday scene. That very normal holiday scene, where the whole gang is together and celebrating and not realizing it will be their last with Joyce.

This episode is not overrated. There is so much inside of it to unpack. So many different angles of grief. So many different commentaries, all wrapped up in one.
 
Plasma
Plasma
I’m here for you. Always ❤️
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Agreed totally.
Tara's line, "It's always sudden". I still have those moments. I watch this episode and I remember the day, the days after, what I was doing, the stopping of my world, and everyone else's continuing to turn. My world continuing to turn slower than everyone else's.

This time of year is particularly bad for me because this is the time of year my mom was at her final decline, all wrapped up in fake holiday joy. I don't remember my last "normal" holiday season. I have begun to feel depressed already, not even really thinking about it, but my subconscious feeling it.

I love that this episode includes that holiday scene. That very normal holiday scene, where the whole gang is together and celebrating and not realizing it will be their last with Joyce.

This episode is not overrated. There is so much inside of it to unpack. So many different angles of grief. So many different commentaries, all wrapped up in one.
Sorry you're going through that, Cohen. It's tough. 😞
Wish I could offer up some magical words to help ease the pain of grief, but I hope talking about it helps, even a little.

And you are right about Tara's line.
 
Cohen
Cohen
Thank you. The first year was a blur, but things are hitting harder this year.
Sending you warm wishes Cohen. It's never easy to deal with.

Two of my friends lost parents recently. One's mother developed end-stage dementia. Went from holding legible conversations to death in a few months. (Scary as hell how quick one can decline). My wife and I actually helped him with hospice care the last few weeks (including my wife sleeping there the last week as she's a former certified nurse's aid). The other friend lost his dad extremely suddenly. His dad was talking to his mom, said that he felt dizzy, and dropped. He was dead about 3 minutes later. Aneurysm. Almost certai9nly felt little pain and had no idea what was happening.

And here's the thing: they are each envious of the other. The first friend thinks the second is lucky because he didn't have to watch his parent die over weeks. The second is envious because the first had time to prepare for it.

And neither is wrong. There's no good/bad answer here.
 
Cohen
Cohen
I think either way it just sucks. Your parent it gone, and there’s a forever hole.
Whilst a couple of character beats don't ring 100% true for me I still think overall it's a great study about the immediacy of grief and how that makes you feel in that moment, and how it can isolate you from everyone else.

There are plenty of truly great, raw performances.
Also I think if it were overrated I would watch it more because it would be less emotionally draining.
 
The other stuff, not so much. That's why they have to do the insert of everyone having dinner there to try and force the notion they were all tight.

Somewhat of a story time, but almost a decade ago now, my family lost my mom’s grandmother. She was very close to my mom, very kind, always there for her (and for the rest of us) and just a very loving and caring individual.

I didn’t have what many would consider a close relationship to her and when it happened, I felt more or less ambivalent in the moment. It didn’t really hit me until we were actually at the funeral that a member of my family has died.

Even within the last two years, I worked at a coroner’s office and had to handle bodies. I knew nothing about the people in the bags I was moving. Nothing at all. But I did feel a strong sense of sadness. Years and years of lives all distilled down to corpses in plastic bags.

Death and the grief that comes after is something that is different for everyone, and I feel like it’s hard to criticize a performance based off of that. The point was to show how differently people process grief. And I’ve found that even if you aren’t “close” to someone, seeing their death or being close to it can be hard.
 
The dinner scene reminds us that the Scoobies do interact outside of the few fractions of an hour over a day or so that we see. It's just that those scenes are so normal and essentially uninteresting to watch that they are not normally seen. If the Scoobies go around to the Summers' house for pizza and a movie, and all that happens is they eat pizza and watch a movie, it is not that interesting to the viewer.
Those scenes need to be shown at the beginning and then cut away from to later for me to casually believe them
 
Those scenes need to be shown at the beginning and then cut away from to later for me to casually believe them
There is only a limited amount of time to show anything on the screen, which means what is shown really needs to have some relevance. Who really wants to see the Scoobies eat pizza and watch a movie and that is all that happens? The dinner scene is a reminder that such things do happen; it is not needed to show something like that in multiple episodes. It had relevance to this episode. You can even say that by how comfortable everyone was with each other that this was not an unusual experience. Yes, that is adding an interpretation to the scene, but it is an interpretation that works.
 
There is only a limited amount of time to show anything on the screen, which means what is shown really needs to have some relevance. Who really wants to see the Scoobies eat pizza and watch a movie and that is all that happens? The dinner scene is a reminder that such things do happen; it is not needed to show something like that in multiple episodes. It had relevance to this episode. You can even say that by how comfortable everyone was with each other that this was not an unusual experience. Yes, that is adding an interpretation to the scene, but it is an interpretation that works.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. This scene was written to show that these characters have boring moments together, as much as they have fantastical moments. It also shows that Joyce has become close to each of the characters over time. It reminds the viewers that Willow and Xander, in particular, have been having normal family night dinners with the Summers since high school, where they feel comfortable bringing their significant others to family night with Joyce. Joyce is a mother figure to all of them, which lends itself to the emotional reactions that happen in the third act between the friends.
 
I think you hit the nail on the head here. This scene was written to show that these characters have boring moments together, as much as they have fantastical moments. It also shows that Joyce has become close to each of the characters over time. It reminds the viewers that Willow and Xander, in particular, have been having normal family night dinners with the Summers since high school, where they feel comfortable bringing their significant others to family night with Joyce. Joyce is a mother figure to all of them, which lends itself to the emotional reactions that happen in the third act between the friends.
honestly? That scene feels more like fantasy than reality to me. Like mourning the potential of it has been lost, But if the eps happen anywhere near aired the timing that's right between Riley leaving Buffy and Willow and Anya at their most biting
 
'The Body' is not everyone's favorite episode of Buffy. It just tends to be the critics' darling.

Personally, I put a few other episodes above it. But I can't argue with the fact that it is very well done. It managed to make me emotional about a natural death in a show that involves so much supernatural-related death. More so, it made me care about the death of a character I was not very fond of.

I think the crux of why it worked so well is because of how it was able to realistically depict the various emotions people can experience after the sudden, unexpected death of a loved one. The formidable acting by SMG sure helped a lot too!
 
I think that because the episode covers such a personal issue that affects everyone differently, it is not so much overrated as it may be overrated for you. Either you can find something in the episode relatable, or you can't. If you can, it is not overrated. If you cannot, it is.
 
honestly? That scene feels more like fantasy than reality to me. Like mourning the potential of it has been lost, But if the eps happen anywhere near aired the timing that's right between Riley leaving Buffy and Willow and Anya at their most biting
It’s a flashback scene. And seems to be in the days just before Christmas, as they ask Dawn if she’s asked Santa for gifts yet, which leads to Anya’s discussion of a krampus-like REAL Santa. So I think it still works canonically, as Riley would have left a week or so prior to when the scene was set.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Oh man, I hadn't even thought about this. Riley had just left Buffy, and then her mother dies...wow.
It’s a flashback scene. And seems to be in the days just before Christmas, as they ask Dawn if she’s asked Santa for gifts yet, which leads to Anya’s discussion of a krampus-like REAL Santa. So I think it still works canonically, as Riley would have left a week or so prior to when the scene was set.

yes, I know what it's supposed to be, it just doesn't really work for me as what it's supposed to be
 
I don't think the episode is overrated. I think it's so commonly discussed people see it as overrated?

As someone who has dealt with plenty of death, I think it handles it from different perspectives quite well.

When Tara says "It's always sudden" this really hits me personally. My grandma had been in and out of the hospital off and on for years, so the last time she ended up in the hospital, I thought it would be like any other time when she would come home. She died in the hospital, and while she was older and I expected it eventually, it definitely was sudden. It will always be sudden because you can never have enough time with someone you truly care about and love.

For Tara personally, it makes sense for her to not be overwhelmed with grief over the loss of Joyce. She knew her the least amount of time. I truly believe her confession of already having lost her mother, and then telling Buffy to not be sorry is a very normal reaction. She's supportive but not making it about herself, which I feel like so many people do when it comes to loss.

Buffy's reaction is equally painful. She's in shock and denial over the loss of her mother, but still has the weight of the world on her shoulders; not only as the Slayer, but also as a sister, friend, and girlfriend. She simultaneously loses her mother AND is forced into adulthood even more so than before. It's almost like she doesn't get a second to grieve. Combined with the fact her mother was on the mend after already dealing with a serious illness makes it all the more surreal. It's essentially the calm after the storm, but it led right into another storm.

Giles' reaction is genuine due to the time he spent with Joyce. While the two had their disagreements, Giles also spent an entire summer working with Joyce to try and find Buffy. Then we obviously have the events from Band Candy and any awkward encounter afterward. His emotions are tied to those memories.

Xander and Willow obviously grieve for Joyce because they knew her longest from the core group and spent time at Buffy's house. Xander punches the wall because he no longer knows how to cope with his emotions, so violence and rage seem like a way to feel better. He even says he feels better for like a second. Willow changes her clothes because she's uncomfortable. She doesn't know how to act, not only in regards to death of a loved one, but also around Buffy. Willow's parents are still alive; she's never experienced such a loss. How can she possibly comfort her friend in her time of need?

Dawn's reaction is justified by the fact Joyce is the only constant in her life. It can be argued Buffy is the same, but Buffy has a whole other life to contend with due to being a Slayer, and their age gap puts a strain on their sisterly bond. Although Dawn is the key and knows it at this point, Joyce is the only person who has ever loved her unconditionally. Dawn even overhears Joyce saying how Dawn feels like theirs and they need to protect her. To be going through such an identity crisis and the chaotic changes of a teenager along with the loss of a parent is incredibly difficult, and that's putting it lightly. Her entire world has shifted.

I see so much hate for Anya's reaction, but it's one of the most touching, realistic scenes in the entire episode. People can argue all they want about how Anya has been alive for a thousand years and should be quite familiar with death, but she hasn't experienced death as a human; least of all for someone she cared about. Maybe we didn't see those moments on screen, but I think it can be implied. Anya's reaction is awkward because loss and grief often are for those who haven't experienced it before. It's the unknown. And quite frankly, I think her explanation sums up how many people feel about death. It is stupid. It is mortal. It's the not being able to understand how a person is here one minute and gone the next.

And the comments about Spike? Why wouldn't he grieve over Joyce? When she first met him, she had no idea who he was, but even when she learned the truth, she treated him with kindness. She treated him like he was a human, even when everyone else only saw him as a monster.

The point I'm making is everyone grieves differently, in their own way. At the start of the pandemic, a friend of mine took his own life. I hadn't talked to him in years and always thought I would run into him somewhere as we did in the past. I struggled with his death, had a lot of thoughts, but more importantly, I grieved the person I lost personally. Each person means something different to someone else.

So sometimes I also think this episode is seen as overrated because it makes people uncomfortable. Death, grief, loss, etc. are never easy, so it's easier to dislike an episode than embracing it.
 
SavvyScoobie
SavvyScoobie
I'm sorry for your loss
Re: Time; We really only see 26 hours of their lives over the course of a year, of any TV character.

Re: Relevance; The issue with this episode is, that sometimes, the quality of art is measured by the way it engages and manipulates the emotions of it's viewer. By that metric, 10 out of 10. And it certainly pushed the bountries of what could be done with television, no question. But, as far as a good episode of Buffy? No.
 
I don't think the episode is overrated. I think it's so commonly discussed people see it as overrated?

As someone who has dealt with plenty of death, I think it handles it from different perspectives quite well.

When Tara says "It's always sudden" this really hits me personally. My grandma had been in and out of the hospital off and on for years, so the last time she ended up in the hospital, I thought it would be like any other time when she would come home. She died in the hospital, and while she was older and I expected it eventually, it definitely was sudden. It will always be sudden because you can never have enough time with someone you truly care about and love.

For Tara personally, it makes sense for her to not be overwhelmed with grief over the loss of Joyce. She knew her the least amount of time. I truly believe her confession of already having lost her mother, and then telling Buffy to not be sorry is a very normal reaction. She's supportive but not making it about herself, which I feel like so many people do when it comes to loss.

Buffy's reaction is equally painful. She's in shock and denial over the loss of her mother, but still has the weight of the world on her shoulders; not only as the Slayer, but also as a sister, friend, and girlfriend. She simultaneously loses her mother AND is forced into adulthood even more so than before. It's almost like she doesn't get a second to grieve. Combined with the fact her mother was on the mend after already dealing with a serious illness makes it all the more surreal. It's essentially the calm after the storm, but it led right into another storm.

Giles' reaction is genuine due to the time he spent with Joyce. While the two had their disagreements, Giles also spent an entire summer working with Joyce to try and find Buffy. Then we obviously have the events from Band Candy and any awkward encounter afterward. His emotions are tied to those memories.

Xander and Willow obviously grieve for Joyce because they knew her longest from the core group and spent time at Buffy's house. Xander punches the wall because he no longer knows how to cope with his emotions, so violence and rage seem like a way to feel better. He even says he feels better for like a second. Willow changes her clothes because she's uncomfortable. She doesn't know how to act, not only in regards to death of a loved one, but also around Buffy. Willow's parents are still alive; she's never experienced such a loss. How can she possibly comfort her friend in her time of need?

Dawn's reaction is justified by the fact Joyce is the only constant in her life. It can be argued Buffy is the same, but Buffy has a whole other life to contend with due to being a Slayer, and their age gap puts a strain on their sisterly bond. Although Dawn is the key and knows it at this point, Joyce is the only person who has ever loved her unconditionally. Dawn even overhears Joyce saying how Dawn feels like theirs and they need to protect her. To be going through such an identity crisis and the chaotic changes of a teenager along with the loss of a parent is incredibly difficult, and that's putting it lightly. Her entire world has shifted.

I see so much hate for Anya's reaction, but it's one of the most touching, realistic scenes in the entire episode. People can argue all they want about how Anya has been alive for a thousand years and should be quite familiar with death, but she hasn't experienced death as a human; least of all for someone she cared about. Maybe we didn't see those moments on screen, but I think it can be implied. Anya's reaction is awkward because loss and grief often are for those who haven't experienced it before. It's the unknown. And quite frankly, I think her explanation sums up how many people feel about death. It is stupid. It is mortal. It's the not being able to understand how a person is here one minute and gone the next.

And the comments about Spike? Why wouldn't he grieve over Joyce? When she first met him, she had no idea who he was, but even when she learned the truth, she treated him with kindness. She treated him like he was a human, even when everyone else only saw him as a monster.

The point I'm making is everyone grieves differently, in their own way. At the start of the pandemic, a friend of mine took his own life. I hadn't talked to him in years and always thought I would run into him somewhere as we did in the past. I struggled with his death, had a lot of thoughts, but more importantly, I grieved the person I lost personally. Each person means something different to someone else.
I'm sorry for your loss.

So sometimes I also think this episode is seen as overrated because it makes people uncomfortable. Death, grief, loss, etc. are never easy, so it's easier to dislike an episode than embracing it.
For some it serves as a harsh reminder. In the past couple of years I've experienced loss and haven't been able to revisit the episode. I'm not mentally prepared.
 
I'm sorry for your loss.


For some it serves as a harsh reminder. In the past couple of years I've experienced loss and haven't been able to revisit the episode. I'm not mentally prepared.
And I think that's okay too. Loss is never easy, so I understand wanting to avoid episodes that bring up painful memories. Other people may use it as a way to grieve and process. Others may not. When I used to be upset, I used to watch Once More with Feeling and Tabula Rasa.

More than anything, the older I've gotten, the more my favorite episodes have changed based on my life and experiences. And that's okay too.
 
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