Conversations with Dead People....Joyce returns?

[Aly Fan]

Last night i rewatched Conversations with dead People for the first time in quite a while and i began wondering...is it joyce or is it the first??

It was never really clear and i just wanted to know what everyone else thought and whether they had heard anything about it?

 

[Blondie Bear]

One of the writers (Jane Espenson, I think) confirmed that Joyce is, indeed, the First. Which stinks, if you ask me. But they didn't, so oh, well.

 

[Aly Fan]

So was the thing attacking "Joyce" a trick by the first also??

 

[Blaze]

This topic as also always confused me. I actually didn't think it was the first because it's apparitions were always different then this one. Anyway, I'm kind of confuse now???

 

[itsxpaperdoll]

I think it makes sense that it was the First. If I remember correctly, the message "Joyce" came with was one that was right up his alley. And the First was very manipulative (sp?) so whatever attacked Joyce could well be also his/hers/its work, to make it all seem more realistic.

 

[MichelleBFT]

If you look at it from the other side, assume that it was Joyce, why would she have come back with that message? True, Buffy didn't "choose" Dawn, because it wasn't Buffy's choice to make. There's no validity to the message, and no reason for Joyce to come back.

But if it's the First, it's obviously trying to frak with Dawn's mind and make her mistrust Buffy. The whole evening was a sham.

 

[StuckinTraffic]

The First was sowing discontent, in the form of misconception, misinformation and the like. It's a classic war tactic. So, it makes perfect sense to me that Joyce would appear with the message she had for Dawn, it was a way of seperating the Slayer from her friends and loved ones.

 

[fly on the wall]

I always thought it was The First and that everything that happened in that scene was a trick by The First.
And yes, Jane Espenson (sp?) confirmed it.

 

[Revolver]

I always assumed it was Xander in a Joyce costume. You didn't notice he was suspiciously absent in this episode?

 

[Joyce Summers]

Jane Espenson confirmed that the Joyce in Conversations with Dead People was definitely the first (And that she was quite pleased with her writing if it caused so many doubts in people, haha). But it was the Joyce in Bring on the Night (appearing in Buffy's dreams) that was never confirmed or not confirmed as The First by the writers and so is open to debate.

I always thought that it was Joyce, because unlike the let's-get-ya-paranoid message to Dawn, the ones to Buffy were actually supportive and helpful. Even the part of evil being a part of all us and how Buffy couldn't fight it on her own if she didn't rest- because it was that whole having to fight on her own etc that got her butt kicked by the ubervamp the first time. And it was only by enlisting everyone's help at the very end that they were able to....well, blow up Sunnydale (and the Hellmouth. Obviously)

 

[anyatara]

It was defiantly The First.
In the commentary, Jane said that some of the dialogue in the original script went:
Dawn: They said people couldn't come back...
Joyce: Maybe I'm the first.
They should have totally kept that in, would have been masterful. I don't care if that's not a word. 😉

 

[fly on the wall]

^ I think they took it out because then it would have been too obvious. I think Jane wanted to create doubt in the viewers.

For some reason though, I never doubted that it was The First. Probably because the message "Joyce" gave was way too, "Nah-nah-nah-boo-boo" mind-gamey to seem genuine.