Cordelia haters...speak...

[EvilWillow]

Speaking as a 20 year old woman, 20 year old women do not act like she acted in season 3.

Umm Everyone is different. I know plenty of very mature 20 years old. I think it depends on what the person has experienced in life

Buffy was a "mature" 20 year old. Do you feel the same about her?

 

[zobothehobo]

Umm Everyone is different. I know plenty of very mature 20 years old. I think it depends on what the person has experienced in life

Buffy was a "mature" 20 year old. Do you feel the same about her?

No... because I know 20 year olds who act like Buffy did. Cordelia was nearly twice as mature as Buffy when they were 20. It didn't feel realistic at all. It irritated me.

 

[Dagenspear]

Speaking as a 20 year old woman, 20 year old women do not act like she acted in season 3.

Most 20 year old women don't have mind tormenting flashes of other peoples pain or have a complete and unyielding sense of self and purpose and have total confidence and strength in themselves and who they are, like Cordelia did. Cordy knew her place in the world and was happy with it, unlike...

 

[Icarium]

I was put down in High School. That isn't being put down. I was actually put down by REAL mean girls, the kind who spit on you, who call you numerous amounts of homosexual insults, and actually physically assault you, for really no apparent reason. You don't know what mean is, if you think Cordelia was mean. I would've given almost ANYTHING to have someone who was just brutally honest and didn't care how I felt, than someone who wanted to hurt me. Someone on here called Cordy a bully. A bully beats you up and emotionally torments you. I know. I had the honor of being a victim to that, as well. Bullying isn't making not so nice but truthful comments.

Yes, sure the bullying in the show is more telling than showing and the bullies could have been far worse but just because there are meaner bullies in real life doesn't mean Cordelia wasn't one. She wasn't just brutally honest, often she liked to just insult people for no reason. I enjoy the character more and more with each rewatch but let's call spade a spade. Insulting people for the way they dress doesn't do them a favour. Would you say Willow would be justified to call Cordelia a retard just to convince her to study harder? Sometiems Cordelia is brutally honest and means well - say in When She Was Bad. Often she just throws insults at people for the hell of it.

 

[zobothehobo]

Most 20 year old women don't have mind tormenting flashes of other peoples pain or have a complete and unyielding sense of self and purpose and have total confidence and strength in themselves and who they are, like Cordelia did. Cordy knew her place in the world and was happy with it, unlike...

I feel like using Cordy's visions for why she suddenly acted like she was at least ten years older than she was is a poor excuse, on the fan side and the writing side.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I feel like using Cordy's visions for why she suddenly acted like she was at least ten years older than she was is a poor excuse, on the fan side and the writing side.

It "To Shanshu in LA" the Vocah gave Cordelia hundreds of visions at once. She was feeling the pain of all those people. That changed her, she realized helping Angel was important, and this is what changed her perspective on life. Not everything needs to be some long drawn out journey...she realized what was really important and she changed. Simple. She didn't instantly becoming a badass demon fighter or part demon, she got those later. Her attitude changed, that is all.

 

[Dagenspear]

No... because I know 20 year olds who act like Buffy did. Cordelia was nearly twice as mature as Buffy when they were 20. It didn't feel realistic at all. It irritated me.

... Buffy. So you're REAL issue here isn't that Cordy's mature, it's that Buffy's more immature than Cordelia and you don't like that, even though it was always kind of a given that Cordelia would end up that way. Cordy saw the real world earlier than Buffy did. Got a job earlier than Buffy did. She became independent earlier. Didn't rely on her parents earlier. She grew up faster. Buffy wasn't forced to face others pain like Cordy was. Cordelia chose to become a champion because of that. It would be unrealistic for Cordy not to be more mature, stronger, and just better than Buffy in every way imaginable.

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 PM ----------

Yes, sure the bullying in the show is more telling than showing and the bullies could have been far worse but just because there are meaner bullies in real life doesn't mean Cordelia wasn't one. She wasn't just brutally honest, often she liked to just insult people for no reason. I enjoy the character more and more with each rewatch but let's call spade a spade. Insulting people for the way they dress doesn't do them a favour. Would you say Willow would be justified to call Cordelia a retard just to convince her to study harder? Sometiems Cordelia is brutally honest and means well - say in When She Was Bad. Often she just throws insults at people for the hell of it.

Why would Cordelia be called a retard? She was in the top ten percent of her class.

 

[zobothehobo]

It "To Shanshu in LA" the Vocah gave Cordelia hundreds of visions at once. She was feeling the pain of all those people. That changed her, she realized helping Angel was important, and this is what changed her perspective on life. Not everything needs to be some long drawn out journey...she realized what was really important and she changed. Simple. She didn't instantly becoming a badass demon fighter or part demon, she got those later. Her attitude changed, that is all.

Yes, I know. I watched the show. And I thought that was a really lame convenient plot device the writers used to make Cordelia act at least 10 years older than she really way.

... Buffy. So you're REAL issue here isn't that Cordy's mature, it's that Buffy's more immature than Cordelia and you don't like that, even though it was always kind of a given that Cordelia would end up that way. Cordy saw the real world earlier than Buffy did. Got a job earlier than Buffy did. She became independent earlier. Didn't rely on her parents earlier. She grew up faster. Buffy wasn't forced to face others pain like Cordy was. Cordelia chose to become a champion because of that. It would be unrealistic for Cordy not to be more mature, stronger, and just better than Buffy in every way imaginable.

See quote above.

I don't see what the big fuss is honestly. This is not the most unpopular opinion... I just did not like how they made her jump 10 years in maturity. The process of growing up, going from teenager to adult... that's a wonderful process that I've been intrigued by since LONG before I started to go through it. Since I started to go through it, I've been even more intrigued. It frustrates me to no end that that process, that part of life was just skipped for Cordelia. It's an important process. And anyone who says that because Cordelia saw so much in that day of non stop visions, she could go through the entire process in one day is either not thinking about what they're saying or lying to themselves. It's not realistic... it was a plot device in order to keep Cordelia on Angel and keep her appeal with the more mature older audience that Angel was targeted at. Normally, I'm not one to take the events outside of the story and explain them by their writing... but in this case, it has to be there to explain because the story just doesn't.

 

[Icarium]

Got a job earlier than Buffy did.

Not really. Remember "Anne"? Other than that I agree, people mature at different rates and Cordelia was forced to sink or swim.

Why would Cordelia be called a retard? She was in the top ten percent of her class.

Insults don't need to reflect reality perfectly, you know. Not to mention that Cordelia was pretending to be dumb for most of the time when Willow knew her. All I am saying that insults can be very hurtful (Cordelia's insults were obviously so for Willow or Marcie Ross at least) and are not just some motivational tool. If you are tough enough to take the type of "brutal honesty" Cordelia dishes out, good for you, but not everybody is like that.

 

[Dagenspear]

You obviously just have your own little issues to deal with here, and you're not really gonna listen, so I'll just say that I find hilarious that you're agitated because something is unrealistic in a show about vampires, demons, and magic.

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

Not really. Remember "Anne"? Other than that I agree, people mature at different rates and Cordelia was forced to sink or swim.



Insults don't need to reflect reality perfectly, you know. Not to mention that Cordelia was pretending to be dumb for most of the time when Willow knew her. All I am saying that insults can be very hurtful (Cordelia's insults were obviously so for Willow or Marcie Ross at least) and are not just some motivational tool. If you are tough enough to take the type of "brutal honesty" Cordelia dishes out, good for you, but not everybody is like that.

That's not Cordelia's fault.

 

[dexeded]

I was put down in High School. That isn't being put down. I was actually put down by REAL mean girls, the kind who spit on you, who call you numerous amounts of homosexual insults, and actually physically assault you, for really no apparent reason. You don't know what mean is, if you think Cordelia was mean. I would've given almost ANYTHING to have someone who was just brutally honest and didn't care how I felt, than someone who wanted to hurt me. Someone on here called Cordy a bully. A bully beats you up and emotionally torments you. I know. I had the honor of being a victim to that, as well. Bullying isn't making not so nice but truthful comments.

So Cordelia wasn't the worst of bullies. That doesn't change the fact that she was a bully. Besides, it's not just a matter of being brutally honest, it's her sarcasm and deliberate insults, merely on how Willow dresses. She's not correcting Willow's dress sense, she's judging it. For example, if Anya said something along those lines, she wouldn't mean it personally, it really would just be stark honesty. But the way Cordelia says it is a personal attack on Willow. It may not be physical bullying, but it certainly is psychological, which is still very potent.

 

[Hale Caesar]

Yes, I know. I watched the show. And I thought that was a really lame convenient plot device the writers used to make Cordelia act at least 10 years older than she really way.

Yeah, you said that already.

I don't see what the big fuss is honestly. This is not the most unpopular opinion... I just did not like how they made her jump 10 years in maturity. The process of growing up, going from teenager to adult... that's a wonderful process that I've been intrigued by since LONG before I started to go through it. Since I started to go through it, I've been even more intrigued. It frustrates me to no end that that process, that part of life was just skipped for Cordelia. It's an important process. And anyone who says that because Cordelia saw so much in that day of non stop visions, she could go through the entire process in one day is either not thinking about what they're saying or lying to themselves. It's not realistic... it was a plot device in order to keep Cordelia on Angel and keep her appeal with the more mature older audience that Angel was targeted at. Normally, I'm not one to take the events outside of the story and explain them by their writing... but in this case, it has to be there to explain because the story just doesn't.

Cordelia didn't change in one day. Her perspective on life changed, THAT can be done in one day, especially considering how traumatizing what she went through must have been. After Season 1 she still had plenty of development to do

- She learned how to become more dependent after Angel fired her
- Her dedication was tested when she had the opportunity to give her visions to Groo and in "Birthday" she could have lived the life she used to want
- She learns to fight from Angel
- Cordelia becomes part demon to keep her visions
- She becomes a mother figure to baby Connor
- She becomes the core of Angel Investigations, becoming a mentor-esque person
- She leaves the man she loves (Angel) to become a higher being (she ended up getting screwed, but her intentions were in the correct place)

I think you believe after Season 1 Cordelia became stagnant, but in when we look back she still had lots to accomplish. Her attitudes changed with the vision, life got put into perspective and the visions allowed her to make these changes and become the person we ultimately see in Season 5

 

[Taake]

Let's just take a deep breath everyone and remember that we're discussing a fictional character, there are no real absolutes here just personal opinions and perceptions. Let's keep that in mind.

🙂

 

[Dagenspear]

So Cordelia wasn't the worst of bullies. That doesn't change the fact that she was a bully. Besides, it's not just a matter of being brutally honest, it's her sarcasm and deliberate insults, merely on how Willow dresses. She's not correcting Willow's dress sense, she's judging it. For example, if Anya said something along those lines, she wouldn't mean it personally, it really would just be stark honesty. But the way Cordelia says it is a personal attack on Willow. It may not be physical bullying, but it certainly is psychological, which is still very potent.

I'll be the first to admit that Cordelia had a pretty vicious edge to her voice in that scene. But it's not like Cordy ever said anything that wasn't true. Yeah, she could've been nicer, but coloring the truth never helped anyone. Besides, I'd say that Cordelia's viciousness there came from the fact that she actually felt personally insulted by Willow's blatant disregard for fashion. I mean, look at her clothes!

---------- Post added at 03:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 AM ----------

If anything, I would've been mad at Cordy if she hadn't said something. Something that WE ALL KNOW WE WERE THINKING.

---------- Post added at 03:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 AM ----------

Let's just take a deep breath everyone and remember that we're discussing a fictional character, there are no real absolutes here just personal opinions and perceptions. Let's keep that in mind.

🙂

Man that logic passed us by like three pages ago. Lol. We're basically all just batshit now.

 

[dexeded]

I'll be the first to admit that Cordelia had a pretty vicious edge to her voice in that scene. But it's not like Cordy ever said anything that wasn't true. Yeah, she could've been nicer, but coloring the truth never helped anyone. Besides, I'd say that Cordelia's viciousness there came from the fact that she actually felt personally insulted by Willow's blatant disregard for fashion. I mean, look at her clothes!

---------- Post added at 03:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 AM ----------

If anything, I would've been mad at Cordy if she hadn't said something. Something that WE ALL KNOW WE WERE THINKING.

Okay, kudos for truth. But I think her viciousness just came from disdain--like, "Really? Willow's wearing that? What a loser." Judgemental, only based on Willow's dress sense (or lack thereof).

And I would have been, well, not mad, but confused, if Cordy hadn't said anything. Because being mean is in her character. She could've been nicer, she wasn't, because being nicer wouldn't be in her character in BtVS. And I do like her, in BtVS and Angel, but the point is that in BtVS what she says, the meaner things she says, aren't laudable or right, but certainly IC.

 

[Dagenspear]

Okay, kudos for truth. But I think her viciousness just came from disdain--like, "Really? Willow's wearing that? What a loser." Judgemental, only based on Willow's dress sense (or lack thereof).

And I would have been, well, not mad, but confused, if Cordy hadn't said anything. Because being mean is in her character. She could've been nicer, she wasn't, because being nicer wouldn't be in her character in BtVS. And I do like her, in BtVS and Angel, but the point is that in BtVS what she says, the meaner things she says, aren't laudable or right, but certainly IC.

I can agree partially on that. Shake on it? Lol.

 

[EvilWillow]

... Buffy. So you're REAL issue here isn't that Cordy's mature, it's that Buffy's more immature than Cordelia and you don't like that, even though it was always kind of a given that Cordelia would end up that way. Cordy saw the real world earlier than Buffy did. Got a job earlier than Buffy did. She became independent earlier. Didn't rely on her parents earlier. She grew up faster. Buffy wasn't forced to face others pain like Cordy was. Cordelia chose to become a champion because of that. It would be unrealistic for Cordy not to be more mature, stronger, and just better than Buffy in every way imaginable.

I freaking love you.

 

[Dagenspear]

I freaking love you.

I freaking love you too.

 

[Ripper666]

I disliked her in the first and second Buffy seasons. She was too naive. Sometimes she acted like a 5 years old child. And she was too often so unrealistic. Every third sentence was about her hair or her face or her clothes. That was boring. But then she changed in Angel. I liked her there. And I liked the Xander/Cordelia relationship!

 

[Dagenspear]

I disliked her in the first and second Buffy seasons. She was too naive. Sometimes she acted like a 5 years old child. And she was too often so unrealistic. Every third sentence was about her hair or her face or her clothes. That was boring. But then she changed in Angel. I liked her there. And I liked the Xander/Cordelia relationship!

I understood everything you were saying, until that last part. Lol.

---------- Post added at 08:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

It's funny, I always felt those traits made Cordelia THE most realistic character on the show. She was vain, shallow, selfish, and cared about no ones thoughts or feelings, but her own. That's about as a close to a real person in reality as you can get.