Cordelia's change once she moved to Ats

[Chosen Enemy]

I've always liked Cordelia as a character on Buffy. Not as a person though. I did like her more as a person when she moved to LA, and became Angel's sidekick.

I know many people didn't care for Cordelia when she was on Buffy, before she went to Ats and become more lovable. So do you think people would have still liked Cordelia (as a person) if she hadn't moved to Ats and become more lovable? Do you think she would have been this popular?

And another question. Do you think Cordelia would have still changed if she hadn't moved to LA, joined Angel's team and became a better person who cares about things that are not fashion and such?

 

[wickedtiger86]

Hmm good questions. I think she was always going to develop but I think it was easier to do on Angel once she started getting visions. That's what started to bring her outside of herself.

I'm sure if she'd stayed on Buffy Joss would have found some way to develop her in the same direction. But I am glad that she was on Angel. She brings a lot of energy too.

I've heard people saying that they don't like her in Angel because she's supposed to be like 21 and acts like a 30 year old. But stuff happens that changes people like that.

Like when I was 12 I learned a lot of things due to major events in my life and from then on everyone has always told me that I'm too wise for my age. So it's not a stretch to me that she changed that much. It was totally believable.

Look, there's that tangent thing I do . . .again . . .😀

 

[Hale Caesar]

I have a huge bias since Cordelia is my favorite Buffyverse character, but I will still weigh in. I still liked Cordelia when she was on BtVS because she was so honest, she spoke whatever was on her mind and I enjoyed that direct approach. When she was on BtVS she did have some development (it wasn't as much as on AtS, but still), she slowly began to accept the Scoobies and even reject her popular friends to be with Xander. I feel this a moment most people tend to overlook. She only went back to them because Xander betrayed her, so I don't blame her

I've never had a problem with her age also, to be honest I always find that argument a little dumb, I enjoyed the character for who she was and never expected her to act a certain way because of how old she was

 

[zobothehobo]

I'm the other way around. I love Cordelia on Buffy. You can tell (especially in season 3, but even all the way back to season 1) that her mean-ness is partially a defense mechanism. I was watching Switched at Birth last night and to quote that show she was "afraid to be different." This is a problem that plaques many high schoolers. But the Scoobies helped her and she tore down a lot of those defenses. She still had little tact, but if she had more tact, she wouldn't be Cordelia.

To me, the Cordelia we saw on Angel was much older than she was supposed to be and almost in a way made me feel bad about myself. One of my favorite things about Buffy is that I often times feel like I'm not moving with the rest of my age group maturity wise... like i should... but I'm moving with Buffy and friends. Watching Cordelia on Angel made me feel like I wasn't because she WAS Buffy's age. Then I eventually stopped feeling bad and started looking at her AS an older person... and then I just got annoyed because I basically had to forget everything I knew about Cordelia before to enjoy her. She was so not recognizable... But more than that, her development wasn't natural... it was like "one episode, she's the Cordy I know and love, the next, she's a 30 year old strange version of herself."

 

[Marisa]

I've never had a problem with her age also, to be honest I always find that argument a little dumb, I enjoyed the character for who she was and never expected her to act a certain way because of how old she was

I don't either I find it refreshing actually. When characters are that immature and have to go through so much it kind of doesn't add up in my eyes and makes no sense.


Well I love Cordelia and I even love Cordy on Buffy. Now do I think she would have still been popular had her change been on Buffy? Yes and no I do think her still sticking around would have taken away from Anya. I overall yes think her change would have made her popular I just don't know if she would have been AS popular as she was on Angel. To me Angel focuses way more on the characters so we see so much more of them. On Buffy they don't do that so she wouldn't have gotten all the time she did to develop.

Now I also think the writing would play a big part. Some of the Buffy characters were very immature for their ages and what they go through. On Angel it wasn't that way imo so Cordy fit right in with her changes. On Buffy she may not have fit with the group as much meaning she would kind of be an outsider.

I am just glad we got the Cordy we did on Angel 😛 She is one of the best female characters or the best sometimes it changes to Willow in my mind.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I don't either I find it refreshing actually. When characters are that immature and have to go through so much it kind of doesn't add up in my eyes and makes no sense.


Well I love Cordelia and I even love Cordy on Buffy. Now do I think she would have still been popular had her change been on Buffy? Yes and no I do think her still sticking around would have taken away from Anya. I overall yes think her change would have made her popular I just don't know if she would have been AS popular as she was on Angel. To me Angel focuses way more on the characters so we see so much more of them. On Buffy they don't do that so she wouldn't have gotten all the time she did to develop.

Now I also think the writing would play a big part. Some of the Buffy characters were very immature for their ages and what they go through. On Angel it wasn't that way imo so Cordy fit right in with her changes. On Buffy she may not have fit with the group as much meaning she would kind of be an outsider.

I am just glad we got the Cordy we did on Angel 😛 She is one of the best female characters or the best sometimes it changes to Willow in my mind.

Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said. In my original post I was just saying I never understood why people don't like Cordelia because of her age 😀

 

[Taake]

I like Cordelia on Buffy, she's a breath of fresh air and always entertaining and believable to watch. I'm not sure how she would have been if she had stayed on Btvs but I'm sure they would have found some way to make her grow, albeit in a limited manner I would suspect (kind of like how Anya grew) still retaining her sassy attitude

I like Cordy on Angel too but I do have several problems with her character there...

Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said. In my original post I was just saying I never understood why people don't like Cordelia because of her age 😀

I dislike that Cordy's age goes from 21 to 31 in like one season because to me it's completely unreal. Though I like her changes I wish we would have gotten to see a better development of her character because to me Cordy's "journey" or "transformation" is growing up, but it's growing up on the fasttrack and in far too perfect of a manner... where were the flaws? The stumbling and rising again in order to learn?

They were onto something in season 1 but then at the end of it, instead of giving her some real story lines, it felt a lot like "hey, instead of dong this the hard way we'll just give her a few days screaming in terror in a hospital bed" in order to 'open' her eyes to the suffering in the world and bam - we have a brand new Cordy. Complete with a strong conscience, a moral code and arms full of wisdom...

... and from there it only escalated. More 'grown up' traits were handed to her character without us seeing much of how she achieved these. (Her visions and their pain was a weak effort in my opinion. Stoicism in the face of pain is not all it takes to achieve the wisdom and insight she suddenly possessed)

I would have loved for Cordy's story to have gotten some more Cordy-centric episodes where we could have seen her mess up but also getting up and learning from her mistakes which might have made her character development a lot more believable. Had it been on Btvs or on Ats.

But instead of getting that we were just handed a Cordy that functioned as some sort of hot, young female 'Giles' on Ats. There for the emotional and moral support of the Angel character, there to guide him , though needed I do feel that robbed Cordy of a lot of her own purpose. Instead of an individual character she became the paradigm side-kick unable to function properly without the focal point Angel served as. She didn't fill a function on the show, she was made to fill a function hence she had to be 'aged' up in order to fit the 'older' shoes of the Ats show.

It's disappointing. For her journey could have been far more fascinating and rewarding, the character had the possibility of it. Kind of makes me wish she would have gotten to remain in Sunnydale or at least could have gotten some crossover visits there. Cordy on her own would have given a better insight to how much she had really change rather than the 'glued-to-Angel-Cordy-action-doll'.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I dislike that Cordy's age goes from 21 to 31 in like one season because to me it's completely unreal. Though I like her changes I wish we would have gotten to see a better development of her character because to me Cordy's "journey" or "transformation" is growing up, but it's growing up on the fasttrack and in far too perfect of a manner... where were the flaws? The stumbling and rising again in order to learn?

They were onto something in season 1 but then at the end of it, instead of giving her some real story lines, it felt a lot like "hey, instead of dong this the hard way we'll just give her a few days screaming in terror in a hospital bed" in order to 'open' her eyes to the suffering in the world and bam - we have a brand new Cordy. Complete with a strong conscience, a moral code and arms full of wisdom...

... and from there it only escalated. More 'grown up' traits were handed to her character without us seeing much of how she achieved these. (Her visions and their pain was a weak effort in my opinion. Stoicism in the face of pain is not all it takes to achieve the wisdom and insight she suddenly possessed)

I would have loved for Cordy's story to have gotten some more Cordy-centric episodes where we could have seen her mess up but also getting up and learning from her mistakes which might have made her character development a lot more believable. Had it been on Btvs or on Ats.

But instead of getting that we were just handed a Cordy that functioned as some sort of hot, young female 'Giles' on Ats. There for the emotional and moral support of the Angel character, there to guide him , though needed I do feel that robbed Cordy of a lot of her own purpose. Instead of an individual character she became the paradigm side-kick unable to function properly without the focal point Angel served as. She didn't fill a function on the show, she was made to fill a function hence she had to be 'aged' up in order to fit the 'older' shoes of the Ats show.

It's disappointing. For her journey could have been far more fascinating and rewarding, the character had the possibility of it. Kind of makes me wish she would have gotten to remain in Sunnydale or at least could have gotten some crossover visits there. Cordy on her own would have given a better insight to how much she had really change rather than the 'glued-to-Angel-Cordy-action-doll'.

I understand where your coming from, the idea that Cordelia instantly developed without having to go through the journey is something that can be unrealistic. But I saw it as her getting these visions and simply changing what her life was about, it is abrupt, but her character at the core was still a good person so I believed it.

A big reason why I believed this development was after she got "older" her role changed from comedic relief (Season 1) to emotional support. I don't think her character needed to go through a journey to realize the important things in life, I feel she just needed one significant moment to change her perspective, which was the last episode of season 1. Then during season 3 she started to train and learn to fight with Angel and occasionally fight demons. So I don't see the development between seasons 1 and 2 to be as huge as some people do, I admit it was slightly rushed but nothing to make me feel robbed, even after season 2 she was still developing (the fights, etc.)

 

[FetalPig]

Cordy lost her family and financial support back in Sunnydale, so what did she do? Get a job in Doublemeat Palace and mope in her basement flat during her off hours? No.

She is the epicentre of her universe and is so used to getting what she wants that she ups and moves to LA to be a movie star. She gets picked up by a Vampire mogul and is saved by Angel who is shot multiple times, goes through several adventures and begins to question her world view. Doyle saves Cordy on the office steps and she is <strike>surprised</strike> grateful. Cordy gradually falls for Doyle who immediately dies in the most heroic of circumstances. World view crumble crumble.

She gets impregnated by a something Demon overnight and gets to contemplate how little she can actually influence her life at times, and is again saved by Angel (and Wes) and this time it hits her that she feels trust in another human being. Her walls come down for a moment.

In Sunnydale Cordy was lagging behind in the 'member of humanity' part of social interaction, a process most of us are a good way through by the end of High-school, but I don't think she changes that much really. It's just that she grew up really fast in LA.

She still says exactly what she thinks only now it has a tinge of compassion and awareness of other people being people, rather than extras in her little soap bubble. So I don't see the emotional support given to Angel as demeaning at all. She says it like she sees it and there is no joy in being mean about it anymore. This is her friend. Needy and unconscionably broody as he might be.