white avenger
white avenger
Do you think, if Cordy had still been around for the series finale, Angel would have tried (not necessarily succeeded, but at least made an honest effort) to send Cordy away somewhere safe before the final battle?
Cordy in "Not Fade Away"
- Thread starter white avenger
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janas
Bangel in the soul
Presumably. It's very likely though I not know for certain. Angel did this also with Nina and Connor, so why not with Cordelia?
Fuffy Baith
2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member
I think he would try. But then Cordy would just pop up in the alley to fight with him til the end.
VisionBoy
Scooby
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Yeah I think he'd try and fail. There's no way Cordelia would run and hide. I highly doubt she could have survived, though she a capable fighter, but she would have gone down fighting W&H. If she still had her demon powers, she might have even been able to thin out the demonic herd considerably.
Not fade away is a suicide mission, Angel knew it, they all knew it. If Cordelia had been alive, Angel would not had gone through it.
Eventhou Angel was following the vision cordelia passed on to him, it came at the right moment when all of them were low on spirit, depressed, lost. I doubt the PTB would had sent that vision if things would had been great. Angel was lost, regretting coming to WR&H, Cordelia had died, Fred was dead. Wesley had lost everything. Gunn felt guilty for trading his knowledge for Fred. There was too much regret and nothing they could do, so when Angel came with his suicide mission, they all said count me in. They went out with a bang. The comics dont exist.
Eventhou Angel was following the vision cordelia passed on to him, it came at the right moment when all of them were low on spirit, depressed, lost. I doubt the PTB would had sent that vision if things would had been great. Angel was lost, regretting coming to WR&H, Cordelia had died, Fred was dead. Wesley had lost everything. Gunn felt guilty for trading his knowledge for Fred. There was too much regret and nothing they could do, so when Angel came with his suicide mission, they all said count me in. They went out with a bang. The comics dont exist.
The Bronze
Rogue Demon Hunter
your fault fool😀. im just kidding.
But if you like the comics then that's your thing. Angel ended on tv for me, and yes they all died
I don't think he would have even made the suggestion that Cordelia leave. Not only does he know that Cordelia is just as capable as Gunn when it comes to defending herself, he also knows Cordelia better than anyone and he knows how stubborn she is. He knows that Cordelia would never have agreed to leave, so I don't think he would have even tried.
Angel wouldn't have asked Cordelia to leave in my opinion. He wouldn't have forced anyone to fight, but he would have treated Cordy the same way he treated Wes and Gunn. He offered them the change to fight, he would have done the same thing for her. It was their fight, all of them, having that resolution is something all of them owned, it wouldn't have been right to refuse one of them the change to fight.
That's too bad, AtF is the best comic I've ever read. It was a great story, nothing to do with the shitty Buffy comics.
That's too bad, AtF is the best comic I've ever read. It was a great story, nothing to do with the shitty Buffy comics.
Cordy_Chase
Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
Although I've not seen the episode, I think this is a unspecific enough question to where I can answer on the general basis of what their relationship had been. I apologize in advance if I don't do justice.
While Angel wouldn't have doubted her ability to fight he was protective of her and lets not forget that before Jasmine he'd been terrified that he'd lost her THREE times ('Tu Shanshu in La', 'Over the Rainbow' and 'Birthday'), so in a typical fight he likely would have tried to keep her out of it but failed. She wouldn't have just accepted standing on the sidelines while the people she cared most about were risking their lives. No matter where he left her and regardless of whether or not he'd disclose where he was going, she'd end up showing up. If it could've meant her life, that's a price that for Angel, she'd pay without a second thought.
In regards to this episode, in particular, I'm looking at @Blaze's answer and I must concur. If he'd offered Wes and Gunn the choice to fight beside him he wouldn't have denied her. He's always been fair with all the members of his team and had the utmost respect for the fighter Cordelia had become. It's more than just how he felt about it though, this like any would have been just as much her fight as his, she was a champion too if the whole Kyrumption suggestion was any indication.
While Angel wouldn't have doubted her ability to fight he was protective of her and lets not forget that before Jasmine he'd been terrified that he'd lost her THREE times ('Tu Shanshu in La', 'Over the Rainbow' and 'Birthday'), so in a typical fight he likely would have tried to keep her out of it but failed. She wouldn't have just accepted standing on the sidelines while the people she cared most about were risking their lives. No matter where he left her and regardless of whether or not he'd disclose where he was going, she'd end up showing up. If it could've meant her life, that's a price that for Angel, she'd pay without a second thought.
In regards to this episode, in particular, I'm looking at @Blaze's answer and I must concur. If he'd offered Wes and Gunn the choice to fight beside him he wouldn't have denied her. He's always been fair with all the members of his team and had the utmost respect for the fighter Cordelia had become. It's more than just how he felt about it though, this like any would have been just as much her fight as his, she was a champion too if the whole Kyrumption suggestion was any indication.
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
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I don't think it would have ever gotten that far honestly. I think you people seem to forget this is Angel that we are talking about. What he lacks in flat hair he makes up in sneakiness. Cordy was not needed to battle the Black Thorn- granted, she could maybe have taken the place of Lindsey or Lorne, but that event needed to happen. So rather than fighting the Black Thorn, I think that crafty little Angel would have sent Cordy to the remains of Sunnydale on an errand, just to ensure that she is nowhere near the alley when the fight came.
Afterall, he could have enlisted Connor to fight with him and did not. He sent him home when the walls started to tumble down, and you cannot tell me that Gunn was a better fighter than Connor.
Afterall, he could have enlisted Connor to fight with him and did not. He sent him home when the walls started to tumble down, and you cannot tell me that Gunn was a better fighter than Connor.
Wesley Pryce
Angel Investigations
Francis Doyle
Townie
Cordy_Chase
Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
After actually viewing the season, I believe this comes down to the subtext of the lead up to the 'Not Fade Away' battle. While this is a hypothetical question, it's also illogical. Had Cordelia been there, it would not have come to that particular scenario in 'Power Play'.
Every event that related to Angel's knowledge of the Circle Of the Black Thorn, his secret position as a double agent, his choices as the head of Wolfram & Hart which played into their hands for that role was a direct result of Cordelia's death.
She had a large influence on Angel's decision making in a couple of ways; how she was being affected/victimized and where she stood on the matter. When she didn't approve of how he did something, she had no problem verbally smacking him across the face and I think in part for that reason but also because he was closest to her, he trusted and valued her viewpoint more than anyone's.
So the fact that she was able to give him The Circle (via passing the visions on to him) but NOT able to participate in what he did with that knowledge was the butterfly effect.
Cordy would not have condoned his actions in the double agent role such as giving that baby to The Fell, she probably would have ended up stepping in herself when she realized he was doing it but that's voided by the likelihood that he would not have gone undercover with her around knowing it meant he'd have to hurt her (because he knew going into it that he'd have to make his team feel like he'd betrayed them). She was the most important person in his life alongside Connor, he'd never have the strength to do that to her again after his crisis in season 2. Even though it would be fake this time, it would be real to her and when she found out it wouldn't make a difference, she'd never forgiven him a second time, nor for going behind their backs. Remember in 'You're Welcome', her reaction to the teams' memories being wiped in the Connor reality shift? "you let them rape the memories of the people who trust you!"
(Sidenote: I don't doubt she came to understand the necessity of rewriting Connor, but I can see her never condoning wiping the team's memories, her tone had clearly said "unacceptable!").
There is also the possibility that Fred would not have been killed/taken over by Illyria, Cordy might have stopped her from touching the coffin or have had her occupied elsewhere when it had arrived thus causing it to be handled by someone else by the time Fred got to the lab. No guarantees here, but it's possible.
If we look at the hypothetical scenario presented here, we have to consider that the battle in 'Not Fade Away' was a suicide mission, was it not? At this point, no one was dripping with enthusiasm for life. They at least seemed prepared to not survive. Lorne was the exception in a couple of ways but, I digress.
Angel, in particular, might have felt differently with Cordelia by his side and with the Shanshu still a possibility (remember he thought he signed it away). If Fred had been able to avoid Illyria Wesley would have felt differently as well.
The most sensible subtext though is that with Cordelia around they probably wouldn't have even ended up at Wolfram & Hart which would have given us a completely different season 5 altogether.
I'll give this, if there were logic to Cordelia being present in the exact same battle, I envision her having been in Connor's role in Angel's battle with Hamilton, and just as Connor had she'd have shown up on impulse though Angel would have likely tried to tell her to stay away. Oh, would I have loved for her to receive that line, and I've imagined it:
"They'll destroy you!"
"As long as you're ok they can't!"
Sorry had to have a Cangel fangirling moment with that.
(I'm pretty sure otherwise I've been unbiased, I always am...or intend to be).
Every event that related to Angel's knowledge of the Circle Of the Black Thorn, his secret position as a double agent, his choices as the head of Wolfram & Hart which played into their hands for that role was a direct result of Cordelia's death.
She had a large influence on Angel's decision making in a couple of ways; how she was being affected/victimized and where she stood on the matter. When she didn't approve of how he did something, she had no problem verbally smacking him across the face and I think in part for that reason but also because he was closest to her, he trusted and valued her viewpoint more than anyone's.
So the fact that she was able to give him The Circle (via passing the visions on to him) but NOT able to participate in what he did with that knowledge was the butterfly effect.
Cordy would not have condoned his actions in the double agent role such as giving that baby to The Fell, she probably would have ended up stepping in herself when she realized he was doing it but that's voided by the likelihood that he would not have gone undercover with her around knowing it meant he'd have to hurt her (because he knew going into it that he'd have to make his team feel like he'd betrayed them). She was the most important person in his life alongside Connor, he'd never have the strength to do that to her again after his crisis in season 2. Even though it would be fake this time, it would be real to her and when she found out it wouldn't make a difference, she'd never forgiven him a second time, nor for going behind their backs. Remember in 'You're Welcome', her reaction to the teams' memories being wiped in the Connor reality shift? "you let them rape the memories of the people who trust you!"
(Sidenote: I don't doubt she came to understand the necessity of rewriting Connor, but I can see her never condoning wiping the team's memories, her tone had clearly said "unacceptable!").
There is also the possibility that Fred would not have been killed/taken over by Illyria, Cordy might have stopped her from touching the coffin or have had her occupied elsewhere when it had arrived thus causing it to be handled by someone else by the time Fred got to the lab. No guarantees here, but it's possible.
If we look at the hypothetical scenario presented here, we have to consider that the battle in 'Not Fade Away' was a suicide mission, was it not? At this point, no one was dripping with enthusiasm for life. They at least seemed prepared to not survive. Lorne was the exception in a couple of ways but, I digress.
Angel, in particular, might have felt differently with Cordelia by his side and with the Shanshu still a possibility (remember he thought he signed it away). If Fred had been able to avoid Illyria Wesley would have felt differently as well.
The most sensible subtext though is that with Cordelia around they probably wouldn't have even ended up at Wolfram & Hart which would have given us a completely different season 5 altogether.
I'll give this, if there were logic to Cordelia being present in the exact same battle, I envision her having been in Connor's role in Angel's battle with Hamilton, and just as Connor had she'd have shown up on impulse though Angel would have likely tried to tell her to stay away. Oh, would I have loved for her to receive that line, and I've imagined it:
"They'll destroy you!"
"As long as you're ok they can't!"
Sorry had to have a Cangel fangirling moment with that.
(I'm pretty sure otherwise I've been unbiased, I always am...or intend to be).
bespangeled
Scooby
Have you talked to the people at your bank?
I think Cordy would have been included just like Fred was included in dangerous missions. Which reminds me - where was that flame thrower she used to destroy the bug nest? In fact, why did everyone decide to fight without weapons?
The best NFA scenario I ran into in fanfic was Gwen tucked on a roof - Angel gets all his people up there and then Gwen makes with the sparks. In the rain that would just be a demon roasting pit!