Cordy the bully

[brinkster130]

While I found a lot of Cordy's snark funny, I do believe she was a bully. She was verbally mean to the unpopular kids and she certainly intimidated many of her classmates. I don't hold it against her because we got to see a different side to her when she started hanging out with the scoobies and toward the end of high school she certainly outgrew a lot of her bullying ways.

 

[Ripper666]

Like I said, she wasn't nice, but I never heard anything from her that was particularly damaging

Well she damaged nobody physicly but psychical terror is much worser than the first one! She blamed everybody wherever she could and made jokes about them so that the others feel bad! She made bad jokes of Willows clothes and Xander. That really hurt them. She damaged their self-confiedence!

 

[Dagenspear]

Well she damaged nobody physicly but psychical terror is much worser than the first one! She blamed everybody wherever she could and made jokes about them so that the others feel bad! She made bad jokes of Willows clothes and Xander. That really hurt them. She damaged their self-confiedence!

If they actually had self-confidence to begin with, it couldn't of hurt them. The real pain didn't come from what Cordelia said, it's that she made them take one good hard look at themselves and realize she wasn't lying. I mean, insults can hurt, but they only cut deep if in some way you actually believe them to be true.

 

[This Year's Girl]

If they actually had self-confidence to begin with, it couldn't of hurt them. The real pain didn't come from what Cordelia said, it's that she made them take one good hard look at themselves and realize she wasn't lying. I mean, insults can hurt, but they only cut deep if in some way you actually believe them to be true.

This might be the truth for you, but people are different and all have their own truth. I feel like you're seeing things in a very black and white way, like either you are a bully or your not. I don't agree with this. Cordelia was a bully in some cases, but she wasn't in others. She was a good person, but good persons can do bad things too. And it's not up to the viewer (I'm talking about IRL now, not the show 🙂) to decide if someone is really hurt by what another person is saying. It's up to the person being bullied, he or she is the expert on their own feelings.

Like many others I've had some pretty nasty stuff being said to me. Many times the words weren't true, but they really, really hurt me. That wasn't about that what they were saying to me was true, it was about the fact that I felt very uncomfortable and sad about the fact that people would go to such lenghts just to make me feel bad. That they were being mean on purpouse and didn't even care.

Also, there's not like there even is a way to look at someone objectively. Cordy might have thought that Willows dress sence was horrible, but that doesn't mean that she told the TRUTH. It's all in the eye of the beholder. But of course, if people constantly are telling you that your clothes are ugly, it isn't that strange if you start to believe it. That's not about that it's a fact, it's about that you learn it and then adapt it even though you might not have thought so in the first place.

Bullying is never ok, and I kind of feel like you're saying it is sometimes as long as what you're saying is the "truth". I hope that I have misinterepered you, 'cause I think that's horrible and I am really offended and sad by it. Can you please explain what you meant so I understand more what you mean?

 

[Summerlilly]

More Cordelia love here! 😛 Cordy is one of my favorite character's because along with Spike she willingly changed and became a better, more caring person who sacrificed for others. The characters I seem to love the most are the one's who's inner personal journey's are just as difficult as the evil they fight every day.

Don't get me wrong, Cordelia was not a nice person before she was forced to grow up. But the PTB chose a strong person for a reason! Angel's unwavering desire to help others combined with the realization that she had a purpose in life and could really help others changed her....she became the opposite of a bully.

Really, I don't care if Cordy was a bully when she was in high school. She more then made up for it over the course of Angel as a true heroin who would die to save her friends! 😀

 

[SlayerFest]

Cordelia looked down on everyone. And with good reason. She was better than them. All of them. And bullied? Lol. She wasn't nice to them. And she shouldn't have had to be. It wasn't her job to be nice. Or to coddle peoples insecurities. She didn't push them around. She didn't physically assault them. She didn't take things from them. She didn't force them to do things. She didn't humiliate them. Nor did she attack them with racial or homosexual slurs. Cordelia Chase was NOT a bully. She was pretty bitchy, A LOT of the time, and she proud of it. Which is the most beautiful thing in the world. But that's not a crime. Cordelia never hurt anybody. She had a very beautiful and good heart, as proven on ANGEL. So no, it doesn't.

Is this a joke? She was better than them? What made her better than them, exactly? And you honestly believe that she never hurt anyone? Words can hurt. This is hilariously absurd. You're entitled to your opinion, obviously...but Cordelia did act like a bully, a few times. She did become less of a bully as the show went on (I can honestly only think of two incidents when she acted like one), simply because the writers wanted us to like her, which I did. However, she acted like a bully when she made that snide remark about Willow's outfit and told her to move. Also, when she asks Buffy to vote for her and acts as if she's going to hand her the chocolate but then doesn't...it was a bully"ish" thing to do. Her blunt honesty is whatever. It became comical and I didn't have a problem with it, but you can't honestly believe that she never tried to humiliate anyone, or that her words didn't hurt people at times.

 

[Summerlilly]

*cough* *cough* Just a reminder guys......remember what week it is before things get too heated!😱😀

 

[SlayerFest]

Cordelia wasn't insecure. And when did she bully Jonathan?

You truly believe that Cordelia never felt insecure? She obviously grew as a person and changed drastically...but early on, she was insecure. I mean some of her rude remarks were so unnecessary. She at times would pick on weaker people (Willow for instance) when they'd done nothing to her. She was also sort of portrayed as a narcissist in season 1 (when she tells the class that she hit a girl on her bike who was "trying to make it about her leg!") She seemed to think that she was above everyone else. That is a huge sign of some major insecurities. I mean come on...let's be real. And why try so hard to "fit in" and be popular if you don't care what people think? She had an image to uphold. She dumped Xander to impress her friends, how insecure can you get? But when she tells Harmony off, it's made clear that she's done following the herd and she truly becomes comfortable in her own skin.

What makes Cordelia a great character is that she goes from being the typical insecure loser who picks on people who aren't "cool enough" to belong in her clique, and she turns into one of the "outsiders"...becoming her own person in the process. She still has her same attitude, she's still just as blunt as ever, but she is now truly self confident, which is why, in my opinion, she no longer feels the need to mock the uncool kids or follow the status quo, in order to "belong". Season 2 and beyond Cordy would destroy season 1 Cordelia if they ever met. She was weak.

 

[This Year's Girl]

What makes Cordelia a great character is that she goes from being the typical insecure loser who picks on people who aren't "cool enough" to belong in her clique, and she turns into one of the "outsiders"...becoming her own person in the process. She still has her same attitude, she's still just as blunt as ever, but she is now truly self confident, which is why, in my opinion, she no longer feels the need to mock the uncool kids or follow the status quo, in order to "belong". Season 2 and beyond Cordy would destroy season 1 Cordelia if they ever met. She was weak.

Aww, Cordy would totally kick Cordelias ass! In the nicest possible way. 😉 Kill her with kindness maybe? :heart:

 

[Dagenspear]

Like many others I've had some pretty nasty stuff being said to me. Many times the words weren't true, but they really, really hurt me. That wasn't about that what they were saying to me was true, it was about the fact that I felt very uncomfortable and sad about the fact that people would go to such lenghts just to make me feel bad. That they were being mean on purpouse and didn't even care.

Why do you care? Why does someone being mean affect you? I'm sorry. But I've never understood this. What that person says doesn't matter. It's meaningless. THEY'RE meaningless. Why does nothing bother you so much? Don't you know beyond a shadow of doubt that you're just better than them, just by the fact that they're the ones attacking you? Why do you allow someone so worthless to get to you? Other peoples opinions of you don't matter. You'll have to please help me understand why they do to you.

---------- Post added at 04:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 AM ----------

You truly believe that Cordelia never felt insecure? She obviously grew as a person and changed drastically...but early on, she was insecure. I mean some of her rude remarks were so unnecessary. She at times would pick on weaker people (Willow for instance) when they'd done nothing to her.

She did that to everyone. Not just the weak.

---------- Post added at 05:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 AM ----------

I believe being with Xander made her insecure. But like all truly strong people she turned that weakness into strength. Both times.

 

[This Year's Girl]

Why do you care? Why does someone being mean affect you? I'm sorry. But I've never understood this. What that person says doesn't matter. It's meaningless. THEY'RE meaningless. Why does nothing bother you so much? Don't you know beyond a shadow of doubt that you're just better than them, just by the fact that they're the ones attacking you? Why do you allow someone so worthless to get to you? Other peoples opinions of you don't matter. You'll have to please help me understand why they do to you.

I think we have very different opinions when it comes to this, but I'm glad we are having a respectful conversation about it 🙂 I do not believe that any person is better than another. People can do really mean, hurtful things, but at the end of the day we're all human. I read something really great a few days ago by Margret Cho, she talked about why she is often (considered) such a bitch and said these very insightful words:

If you were raised lovingly and told you were perfect and beautiful and loved and the best at all things, I am just jealous. You had it much better, and so you really should spread that love around as opposed to judging those like me who never had that, never knew what it was like and never could even imagine it. I could learn from you instead of feeling judged by you. Give the less loved and less cared for and less treasured a chance. If I had that opportunity, then my language and attitude might not be so offensive.

Not every person that is mean to others haven't had a problematic upbringing or things like that, but I try to live my life with forgiveness and understanding. Hate and believing I'm better than others I feel isn't doing me any good.

I have a strong feeling of self worth. I was never bullied, but like many others of course I've been told mean things. It's not about that I take those mean words to heart and believe them to be true. It's about that I'm only human, and of course I (and many other with me) can be hurt when people are being mean to us. To get to know people and let them in my life I have to have my guard down and allow myself to feel what I feel, so yes, it can be very hurtful when someone says something mean. But I don't protect myself from that kind of hurt, I let myself feel it so I can feel better. I feel sad about it because I'm wondering why those people feel the need to put others down when they can be doing so much better things. We should help and support each other, we're all in this together. I try to understand and forgive. And then I move on.

 

[Ripper666]

Why do you care? Why does someone being mean affect you? I'm sorry. But I've never understood this. What that person says doesn't matter. It's meaningless. THEY'RE meaningless. Why does nothing bother you so much?

Well it's nice to hear that such negative statements doesn't really affect you but there are others which give a lot of such (often wrong) criticism. I have the feeling that this isn't all clear for you! You have to pay attention what you say to others, maybe they are really hurt from the things you said! And Cordelia didn't just not pay attention what she said, she tried to hurt others for extra!

If they actually had self-confidence to begin with, it couldn't of hurt them. The real pain didn't come from what Cordelia said, it's that she made them take one good hard look at themselves and realize she wasn't lying. I mean, insults can hurt, but they only cut deep if in some way you actually believe them to be true.

Well it doesn't care how much self-confidence you have, by time and with a lot of critism it will be destroyed. And noone has the right to destroy your hope and your feelings. Neither Cordelia nor any other person! Did you saw what Willow was in the beginning of season 1? she was a looner with no friends and self-confidence! And surely Cordelia played an important role in her life! And not a good one. For example she always bullied her for her "old-fashion" clothes! Was this correct?

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

Of course you can say now that her clothes had been "old-fashion", that she could be happy someone told her that! Of course Cordi wasn't lying here! But Cordelia could have tried to tell it her in another way, a way which wouldn't have hurt Willow the same as the way Cordelia had chosen! I am sure she didn't want to help Willow by finding with her a new clothes-style, she just wanted to hurt her! Maybe Willow had no sense for the things which are "cool". Cordelia could have helped her buying new clothes instead of lauging at her!

 

[arabella]

Thoughts become words, words become action, and actions become habits. Female bullies of the 90s (and today?) use their words to form exclusive groups that limit the opportunities of outsiders. If it isn't okay to make fun of Lady Gaga and call her a freak for how she acts/dresses then it wasn't okay for Cordy to make fun of Willow for how she dressed and acted... Both are just words, but I've seen people on this board become extremely upset that Gaga would be called a name before, even if it's just words. Words can be used to bully. As I hope we learned in our be nice week, just because you may feel that your opinion about someone or something is right and because of it's rightness shouldn't offend-- what we say matters. What Cordelia said mattered to people and she didn't use it responsibly in the beginning, she used it to be mean and exclusive. She got better and became the beautiful person she was always meant to be.

 

[Ripper666]

I think Willow dressed adorable in the early seasons

I do too, I think she was more attractive than all these friends of Cordelia in latex!
But I needed an example and I didn't found one for Xander! 😀

 

[Tome]

Cordelia looked down on everyone. And with good reason. She was better than them. All of them. And bullied? Lol. She wasn't nice to them. And she shouldn't have had to be. It wasn't her job to be nice. Or to coddle peoples insecurities. She didn't push them around. She didn't physically assault them. She didn't take things from them. She didn't force them to do things. She didn't humiliate them. Nor did she attack them with racial or homosexual slurs. Cordelia Chase was NOT a bully. She was pretty bitchy, A LOT of the time, and she proud of it. Which is the most beautiful thing in the world. But that's not a crime. Cordelia never hurt anybody. She had a very beautiful and good heart, as proven on ANGEL. So no, it doesn't.

Hahaha, as much as I love Cordy, I gotta say this is pushing it a bit on the *pro* side. 😛 She wasn't better. No one is better than others. Yes, it wasn't her job to be nice, but she did hurt Willow a few times and she probably had done it many times before in the past(which we didn't get to see) since they seemed to have known each other for a while.

To respond to the OP though... The reason why *I* personally love Cordy is because of how she developed through the story and how she still stayed true to her original traits. Yes she could still be bitchy, she could still be a lil selfish. But she matured and going through that ordeal with the visions changed her a lot. All of this doesn't mean that she wasn't a bitch to a lot of people earlier on, but I can never judge a person or character on a single thing about them. I mean, even at the beginning... You could see that she was playing the part a bit(what with what she said to Buffy in 'Out of Mind, Out of Sight'). Cordy was a girl with a LOT of heart. It was just well hidden on Buffy(and even then there were some moments that proved she was a caring person).

All in all... Cordelia is one of my favorite characters ever. 🙂

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I'm snowed-in here, and watching some eps from Season 3 with this thread in mind.

I don't think Cordy was a bully. I thinks he was easily influenced, and scared.

That's all I really have to say.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I think that what we don't quite see on the show is that Cordy truly was putting others down on a regular basis, before Buffy came along and her life changed forever. You can see through her interaction with Willow in WTTHM that Cordy not only makes a habit of insulting the less popular, but that they expect it from her. They are very visibly less confident around her. I think that in "The Wish" when we get a good look at how the Cordettes treat Jonathan, it is meant to suggest that Cordy herself would probably have partaken in the humiliation of such a character, had she not been one of the targets herself, in earlier seasons during which she really was still the head of the group named after her. Watching a group called "The Cordettes" behave is essentially taking a glimpse at the things that Cordelia did before she was forced into the monsters-are-real camp and started realizing that there were some real scary things out there toward which she should probably direct her attention.

Of course when that happens, so does the evolution of Cordelia. I think pretty early on in the series she is no longer an outright bully; she is confused, short, resentful, and still has a bit of that (okay a lot of that) self righteous for all the wrong reasons attitude. But I'd say by season 3 she is pretty solidly a strong, confident woman with a lot of opinions who many would call a "bitch," simply because she isn't afraid to express them.

There is an important distinction to be made when a woman is truly nasty and inappropriately harsh with others, versus when she is simply being assertive and honest. Too often, women who fall into the latter category are called "bitches." They ask for things, and aren't afraid to make their voices known just as men do, and it's considered some sort of personality flaw. That's a really big problem! In any case, I think Cordelia very clearly exhibits behavior that fits into each category, at different points in the series. I wish more of that sassy assertiveness had stayed throughout Ats, but I think she was pretty great in any case.

 

[Xin Rong]

The fact that she was so horrible at the start just made her all the more intruiging, especially as her character developed throughout Buffy and Angel. Personally I enjoyed bitch cordy and like the occasional reappearances later in Buffy and Angel.

 

[SlayerFest]

I believe being with Xander made her insecure. But like all truly strong people she turned that weakness into strength. Both times.

Why? Because he was a total dork...at times? She didn't care, she wanted to be with him so she did. It would have made her seem insecure if she hadn't gone back to him, if she hadn't told Harmony off, if she had stayed with her lame sheep friends. It would have made her a sheep. Sheep are insecure. Going out with someone you like, despite what your lame "friends" stay, that takes strength and self confidence.

---------- Post added at 12:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 PM ----------

Why do you care? Why does someone being mean affect you? I'm sorry. But I've never understood this. What that person says doesn't matter. It's meaningless. THEY'RE meaningless. Why does nothing bother you so much? Don't you know beyond a shadow of doubt that you're just better than them, just by the fact that they're the ones attacking you? Why do you allow someone so worthless to get to you? Other peoples opinions of you don't matter. You'll have to please help me understand why they do to you.

You've never been hurt by a person's words? Ever?

 

[Dagenspear]

Why? Because he was a total dork...at times? She didn't care, she wanted to be with him so she did. It would have made her seem insecure if she hadn't gone back to him, if she hadn't told Harmony off, if she had stayed with her lame sheep friends. It would have made her a sheep. Sheep are insecure. Going out with someone you like, despite what your lame "friends" stay, that takes strength and self confidence.

Because I feel like the Cordelia of s1 never would've folded to Harmony like she did in BBB.

You've never been hurt by a person's words? Ever?

When I was a kid. But, around 14 I just realized that I could either let myself get upset about stupid things coming out of the mouths of obviously stupid people, or I could just find a peace in myself and in my own personal strength, and just not care. Yeah, things can still aggravate me, but, I mean, I wouldn't be human if they didn't, right? But, I mean, what's the point in giving someone the satisfaction of hurting you? I just let it go.