Could "Angel & Faith" had worked as a spin-off series

[Joshua]

Do you think some the "Angel & Faith" comic book series would have worked as a televisied spin-off?

 

[mackenzie99]

yes,it would have been amazing cause of Faiths popularity and seeing her brotherly / fatherly bond with angel every single week. im sure buffy fans today would still line up for it!

 

[VisionBoy]

Sure, or even just having her in Ats more. I've said in previous threads that I think she could have been a good addition in season 5, what with the absence of Cordy and Lilah.

If it was like the comics; set in London, I might prefer a Giles and Faith show to be honest, maybe with Angel making guest appearances- but that'd only work pre-Buffy s8 comics I suppose.
I say that because as much as I enjoyed "Angel and Faith"... in my ideal canon, Angel's main story would have ended with 'After the Fall'; no Twilight to speak of. But that's just me.

 

[vellavu]

yes,it would have been amazing cause of Faiths popularity and seeing her brotherly / fatherly bond with angel every single week. im sure buffy fans today would still line up for it!

Yes! I would line up for it. Some opinion: Faith/Angel relationship in A&F is more like battlefield buddies. It's even more intense, in terms of mutual trust and the willingness to die for each other, than a normal non-bloodkin brotherhood/father-daughter-like relationship. But they don't share privacies or feelings, so in this aspect they are almost stranger at the same time.

I say that because as much as I enjoyed "Angel and Faith"... in my ideal canon, Angel's main story would have ended with 'After the Fall'; no Twilight to speak of. But that's just me.

Well, Twilight just happened. It's just Angel made yet another Angel-style mistake: cool style, grand gesture towards audience, trying a quick fix for problems. The difference was that he had even more power than W&H.

"After the Fall" as an ending was inappropriate IMO. Angel had enough with the real work of fixing things slowly in W&H, did not choose to resist the corruption and help people, instead he tried to generate a big noise by sacrificing the whole team and then the whole city just to make a point/stand a side. Then he was rewarded by the time-rewinding-elimination of W&H in LA? WTF?

A&F was good because he finally tries to help people again and make hard, tedious, underdog, non-shiny atonement again.

 

[thetopher]

I think it would absolutely work. A&F's roots are tied very close to the original series. It could even be S1 Angel really- back to basics, helping the helpless and finding their own redemption in the process.

Yes! I would line up for it. Some opinion: Faith/Angel relationship in A&F is more like battlefield buddies. It's even more intense, in terms of mutual trust and the willingness to die for each other, than a normal non-bloodkin brotherhood/father-daughter-like relationship. But they don't share privacies or feelings, so in this aspect they are almost stranger at the same time.

I disagree. I think Faith shared more of herself with Angel than anyone else. In S2 Jugement, when Angel visits her in prison, the scene ends with her telling him about the food and how it was better than when she was growing up in Boston.
I always thought Faith told Angel about her childhood- or at least some of the stuff pre-slayer- during his prison visits. I always thought of them as big brother/little sister in their treatment of each other. They way they thanked each other in Orpheus and then she ribbed him about wanting an awkward hug- that kind of thing goes beyond 'battle brothers', its being comfortable around each other.

 

[gite63]

I don't think so - Faith was good on the show - in small doses, mainly because Eliza Dushku. They tried her on 2 other shows, and both were cancelled.

 

[thetopher]

I don't think so - Faith was good on the show - in small doses, mainly because Eliza Dushku. They tried her on 2 other shows, and both were cancelled.

Fox cancelled Dollhouse because of Eliza? I must say that's a new one on me.

And Dollhouse lasted longer than Firefly anyway, Firefly gets plenty of love on these boards. The reason Dollhouse failed was Fox, and that's all.

 

[SB4thewannabes]

I think it could have worked out, most likely on season 5 of Angel, but they decided to bring in Spike instead. Right now though I'm trying to work out how Eliza Dushku managed to avoid the most Eliza Dushku role possible in Jessica Jones, and coming up empty.

 

[gite63]

Fox cancelled Dollhouse because of Eliza? I must say that's a new one on me.

And Dollhouse lasted longer than Firefly anyway, Firefly gets plenty of love on these boards. The reason Dollhouse failed was Fox, and that's all.

I didn't say that Fox cancelled because of Eliza. The fact is that Dollhouse and Tru Calling were cancelled. Maybe if they had chosen another actress...

 

[thetopher]

I didn't say that Fox cancelled because of Eliza. The fact is that Dollhouse and Tru Calling were cancelled. Maybe if they had chosen another actress...

...they wouldn't have been cancelled? So therefore you're saying that she is the reason they were cancelled. 😛

Man, you would've thought somebody would've blamed Eliza before now for this obvious pattern. I mean, didn't Joss and Tim Minear want to give Eliza a Faith spin-off because of what a great character she was? Fools! Because it apprently never would've worked.

Also Ringer and The Crazy Ones was cancelled after one season because of Sarah Michelle Gellar doncha know. 🙄

 

[gite63]

...they wouldn't have been cancelled? So therefore you're saying that she is the reason they were cancelled.

Also Ringer and The Crazy Ones was cancelled after one season because of Sarah Michelle Gellar doncha know.

There are many factors that led to the cancellation of a show. But, I remember watching Tru Calling and thinking: "what an awful actress!" 😛

 

[Samuel Reyes]

Fox cancelled Dollhouse because of Eliza? I must say that's a new one on me.

And Dollhouse lasted longer than Firefly anyway, Firefly gets plenty of love on these boards. The reason Dollhouse failed was Fox, and that's all.

Dollhouse was cancelled because of low ratings, not because of anything Eliza did.

The reason it got a Season 2 was because FOX didn't want Joss Whedon fans complaining that they'd cancelled another one of his shows before it could go anywhere. So they gave Dollhouse a second season to finish out the story, which I do find somewhat gracious.

 

[Taake]

Dollhouse was cancelled because of low ratings, not because of anything Eliza did.

Well, low ratings can be caused by viewers failure to engage with characters and story, which is/can be a combination of writing and acting. So for a lot of people it may very well have been a failure to enjoy Eliza's performance that turned them off the show.

...they wouldn't have been cancelled? So therefore you're saying that she is the reason they were cancelled. 😛

Man, you would've thought somebody would've blamed Eliza before now for this obvious pattern. I mean, didn't Joss and Tim Minear want to give Eliza a Faith spin-off because of what a great character she was? Fools! Because it apprently never would've worked.

Also Ringer and The Crazy Ones was cancelled after one season because of Sarah Michelle Gellar doncha know.

Ok, firstly, this is a bit snarky...

Secondly this "obvious pattern" has been discussed before as far as I know. Not everyone thinks Eliza did an amazing job as either Faith, Tru or Echo. Please respect that.

As for Ringer and The Crazy Ones I'm going to reiterate my previous statement. Poor writing and acting, or at least a failure to connect with audiences, can be the cause of a show failing and both writers and actors can be the cause of people failing to follow a show. I for example love SMG, but I thought that Ringer was a terrible show, unwatchable, and that it was painful to see her in it. So I stopped watching it. I'm obviously not saying that me not watching it brough the show down, but the fact that it failed might be because other people felt similarly. One could blame quality and storytelling, but at the very least one could also argue that SMG wasn't good enough to keep a fan like me around...
 
As for an "Angel and Faith" show... I'm not sure. I feel like it would work now, when they have more of a bond, but at the end of Buffy season 3 it wouldn't have worked. And I can't imagine it would've worked later for the same reason that "Buffy & Faith: the vampire slayers" wouldn't have happened... it's a demotion for the lead character/actor. I'm not sure DB would have been too keen on that. It's like saying that Angel couldn't make it on his own.

So short answer; it would work as a show now, I don't think it would've worked then.

 

[thetopher]

There are many factors that led to the cancellation of a show. But, I remember watching Tru Calling and thinking: "what an awful actress!"

Ok, firstly, this is a bit snarky...
Secondly this "obvious pattern" has been discussed before as far as I know. Not everyone thinks Eliza did an amazing job as either Faith, Tru or Echo. Please respect that.

Well, I guess we're lucky that Joss Whedon disagreed and offered Eliza not one, but two television shows.
I've never heard anywhere that Dollhouse failed because of Eliza's ability. I think it actually failed because Fox didn't understand the concept until Season 1 got well into production and then they were all 'shit, this is dark!'.
Dollhouse was an ensemble cast of talented actors and I'll be the first to admit that Eliza wasn't the best that was there- but she was good, and has real presence and charisma if the role is right.
And A&F would also be an ensemble show, so I don't see the problem.

 

[mackenzie99]

I would never say that Eliza's the best actress in the world. But Eliza was born to play Faith,to the point where I could watch Eliza's buffy Q and As and pretend its Faith.

 

[Samuel Reyes]

Dollhouse had poor ratings because many people couldn't buy into the premise. A show about human trafficking = brain bleach = decline in viewers.

Eliza is limited but I couldn't imagine anyone else playing Faith the same way she did, and given the right role she does a good job. Her performance in 'Haunted' is one where she managed to step outside of her comfort zone and make it believable.

 

[SB4thewannabes]

I've never heard anywhere that Dollhouse failed because of Eliza's ability. I think it actually failed because Fox didn't understand the concept until Season 1 got well into production and then they were all 'shit, this is dark!'.

I think I read Fox suddenly realised the show was basically about sex trafficking and, at the time, that was not acceptable as a premise for a tv show, in a similar way to how the Buffy Vs Faith 'forehead' kiss was altered from the shooting script.

 

[SB4thewannabes]

But unlike that, which could easily be modified (even if it did make the 'give us a kiss' taunt later a bit flat) the premise of a whole series was too hard to change.

Missed that off the end of the last post for some reason.

 

[vellavu]

Dollhouse had poor ratings because many people couldn't buy into the premise. A show about human trafficking = brain bleach = decline in viewers.

Also because that the first full five episodes give most people the impression that it's a Client-of-the-Week show. And also the fact that the evil dollhouse seemed to be doing good things in the first half season must have been pissed many audiences off.

 

[Mr Trick]

Not read any of Angel/Faith comics so won't comment on the storylines, but certainly I think they could have had their own spin-off series based on the merits of the characters having depth, the actors being engaging on screen, and that there would still be plenty of room to grow their respective stories together.