CRUSH; cattleprods and catfights.

[saturn5]

CRUSH

The Good;
The stunning opening, the moment you see Dru pop up you just know it's going to be a good one.

The Bad;
Nothing although you have to be following the series to understand it all.

Best line;
Buffy; (to Spike) "You're like a serial killer in prison"
Spike; "Women marry them all the time!" Sad but true, hybristophia is the term for women being attracted to men who have committed an outrage. Female serial killers (such as there are) tend not to get all the adoration and fan mail from men their masculine counterparts recieve from women.

Women good/men bad;
Harmony finally wises up and dumps Spike, about time too! (he's especially cruel to her here) Spike wonders "Why you bitches torture me?". His idea of proving his love for Buffy is to kill Dru for her?!

Jeez!;
The slaughter on the train. Buffy sitting in the chalk outline of the murder victim. Spike's story of massacaring an entire family. Dru and Spike's horrible stalking and slaughter of the kids at the Bronze.

Kinky dinky;
Anya dancing. What does Spike do to the little girl in the coal cellar? We won't find out until season 7 (remember this story, Spikettes when you're talking about how misunderstood he is and how badly Buffy treats him!). Buffy compares beating up Spike to sexual foreplay. He says he know's this is wrong as his stalker shrine and smelling her sweater testify to. Harmony is gorgeous in her nightie and is happy to play dress up with Spike. However she says no to threesomes...

Captain Subtext;
....unless it's boy-boy-girl or Charlize Theron. Dawn announces her crush on Spike much to Xander's chagrin. Dru says vamps can love 'Quite well' if not wisely as she and Spike and Darla and Angel prove. Spike suspects that the two vamps he and Buffy chase away are gay. Buffy suggests Spike 'Hit on Giles'. Dru says she knew Spike loved Buffy even before she did.
Finally everyone catches on to Spike's Buffy obsession! And it's lil'Dawnie that points it out.

Guantanamo Bay;

Scoobies to the ER;

Missing scenes;

Apocalypses; 5,

Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy in chains once more
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 1
Dawn; 1

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy by Dru.
Buffy: 17
Giles: 10
Cordy: 6
Xander: 8
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;1

Kills:
Buffy: 94 vamps, 32 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 5 vamps, 1 demon
Cordy: 3 vamps, ½ a demon
Will: 6 vamps
Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 5 vamps, 2 zombies, ½ a demon, ½ a demon
Anya: ½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 2
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 3

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 6
Giles: 3
Cordy: 1
Will: 2
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 3

Recurring characters killed: 9
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara

Sunnydale deaths; six dead on the train plus the poor kids at the Bronze
98;

Total number of scoobies: 6
Giles, Xander, Willow, Buffy, Anya, Tara,

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Cordy: 1?
Buffy: 3 confirmed; Angel, Parker,Riley, 1 possible, Dracula(?)
Angel: 1;Buffy
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore

Questions and observations;
Dru doesn't believe in electricity but she seems content to use the cattle prod on Buffy. She fills Dru in on the events in LA but neither seem overly concerned about extra-crispy Darla (as Dru says vamps love 'Quite well'). Note when Spike courts Buffy he wears a jacket and tie, trying to present a different image? Xander refers to Spike as Evil Dead, wouldn't Nic Brendon make a great Ash in a remake? Love Xander's remarks on not offending a brutal killer ("actually pretty good advice"). You can already see that Dawn is taller than Buffy in the scene where they walk away from Spike's tomb (Michelle Tractenberg just shoots upwards during the course of the seasons). Harmony refers to Dru as 'Morticia' MM of course having starred in the Addams Family Movies. Note Buffy is a match for Dru even when chained up.
Once read an interesting fanfic where Harmony accidentally kills Buffy during the crypt fight but when Dawn touches Buffy's corpse she starts glowing green and brings her back to life (and spends the next five days in a coma as a consequence), a staple of happy-sequal fanfic.
Marks out of 10; 8/10

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Uf. The opening was scary. Really, for me it was.

The begining of Spike's love for Buffy was kinda fine, with he line's like why do women torture him, but then, it becames really lame, when he starts to act like a little puppy :S

8/10

 

[ubi4soft]

Joyce asks Buffy if she led Spike on at all. She responds, "Well, I... I do beat him up a lot. For Spike that's like third base."
So, dear Buffy, why do you keep touching Spike's third base? Smashed much? Buffy, queen of denial.

Why didn't Buffy killed Harmony? She was on killing spree in Sunnydale, I never understood that. Also she's letting Drusilla go.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

CRUSH out until season 7 (remember this story, Spikettes when you're talking about how misunderstood he is and how badly Buffy treats him!).

I've never seen it denied that Spike has plenty of evil in his past. Part of the appeal of his character is that he began to transform pre-soul. If he were always a "good" vampire he wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

 

[Rack]

Props to Juliet Landau...she never fails to bring the creepy creepy. And to the writers for writing such creepy lines for her. [shivers]

 

[saturn5]

I've never seen it denied that Spike has plenty of evil in his past. Part of the appeal of his character is that he began to transform pre-soul. If he were always a "good" vampire he wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

So you think the appeal of Spike is that he's a 'fixer upper' as CC would say. Then again she also said that "Scratch the surface on a guy and all you get..."

 

[thevikingsgirl]

So you think the appeal of Spike is that he's a 'fixer upper' as CC would say. Then again she also said that "Scratch the surface on a guy and all you get..."

He's not an old car that needs rebuilding. He's someone who found in himself the capacity for love and change, when by all expectations he should not have had, soulless vampire that he was. He stands out from all the other vampires in the Buffyverse, none of whom (that I can recall) ever found the ability to do something good or selfless when they were without a soul. He later chose to go on a quest for the return of his soul so he could be a better man. These things are impressive to me.

 

[Rack]

I've said this all along. Spike is the most redeemed character in the 'verse for this reason. His only impetus to change is his will and his love for Buffy. The chip didn't force him to change his ways, only prevented him from doing violence to humans. Angel had his change thrust upon him. Dru was his sire, his lover, his companion. He was willing to turn on her, on his whole past.

"I know I'm a monster. But you treat me like a man."--The Gift

 

[saturn5]

He's not an old car that needs rebuilding. He's someone who found in himself the capacity for love and change, when by all expectations he should not have had, soulless vampire that he was. He stands out from all the other vampires in the Buffyverse, none of whom (that I can recall) ever found the ability to do something good or selfless when they were without a soul. He later chose to go on a quest for the return of his soul so he could be a better man. These things are impressive to me.

I don't dislike him, I think a few of his fans are a bit too quick to forgive him everything (I always said the same of Xena, that like Holst Callisto was entitled to her revenge).
Once he gets his soul back I have no problem with him and he IS better than Angel as he actually fights to redeem himself whereas Angel's soul is forced upon him. But he has a long way to go if he thinks killing your ex in front of your current object of affection is the way to win her heart

 

[Kana]

As Joss said, Spike may be able to feel love at this point but it's still a selfish possessive kind of love. When Buffy says no he refuses to accept it. He cannot get insight into what he's doing wrong in the episode. Tying Buffy up and threatening to sic Dru on her if she doesn't admit she loves him isn't the way to go about things. He was treating her as an object, actually all three women as objects.

 

[saturn5]

As Joss said, Spike may be able to feel love at this point but it's still a selfish possessive kind of love. When Buffy says no he refuses to accept it. He cannot get insight into what he's doing wrong in the episode. Tying Buffy up and threatening to sic Dru on her if she doesn't admit she loves him isn't the way to go about things. He was treating her as an object, actually all three women as objects.

I think Dru says it all in this ep, vamps can love 'quite well', Spike realises that Buffy needs the whole package and that's why he goes to get his soul back. Of course as a soulless vamp he has no idea what he's letting himself in for, to have done the things he's done and care about it. He's like a blind man who has his sight restored, he thought he knew what the world looked like but actually had no idea

 

[Kana]

thevikingsgirl agrees: Oh yeah. he still had a lot to learn...but he learned it eventually.

To be honest, thinking about it, I was a bit hard on ol' Spikey. I certainly don't judge him by soulled human standards and I'm a strong believer that you cannot seperate the love from the lover. He was still struggling with his identity so...one minute he'll tie her up and demand she admits she loves him back, the next he'll

Spoiler

virtually sacrifice his life to help the Slayer (Intervention)

and so on. He really keeps us hopping.

 

[Kelsey]

Spikette? I like it! =D

I've always been a fan of a selfish character who transforms through loving another person. If there's any sort of plotline like that in any television series, book or movie, you can bet I'm going to latch onto it like a dog with a bone. Spike was a particularly juicy one too, because he was so evil but some of the things he did for love were so good. In the span of the same episode, he built a creepy Buffy sex toy and nearly sacrificed himself to save the Slayer's little sister! His is the ultimate redemption story, and it was made even better because we saw each and every stage. We saw the evil stage, the obsession stage, the sacrifice and change for love stage, the redemption stage, etc. I love it all quite a bit, and I'm not ashamed to say it's my favorite part of Buffy.

As for this episode, it was hilarious. I know everything Spike was doing was utterly terrible, from locking Buffy up to treating Harmony like dirt to wanting to kill Dru for Buffy, but I just couldn't help feeling sorry for the guy. It was clear his feelings for Buffy were ripping him to shreds. And that look on his face in the end, when Buffy blocks him from the house!? Again, she had every right to lock out the crazy, obsessed vampire, but damn if I didn't sympathize. I blame it on James Marsters and his beautiful, pain-filled blue eyes.

"Why do you bitches torture me!?" *Pats his head*

 

[saturn5]

I still think it's a dodgy message that Buffy should be lovers with an unrepentant mass murderer who stalks her, steals her underwear, knocks her out, chains her up and offers to prove his love for her by killing his ex for her...and says he'll let his ex kill her if she says no. Whilst simultaneously abusing his recently dumped blonde tumble.

That said, once he get's his soul back, everything changes

 

[Kelsey]

I still think it's a dodgy message that Buffy should be lovers with an unrepentant mass murderer who stalks her, steals her underwear, knocks her out, chains her up and offers to prove his love for her by killing his ex for her...and says he'll let his ex kill her if she says no. Whilst simultaneously abusing his recently dumped blonde tumble.

That said, once he get's his soul back, everything changes

Eh, I disagree with that last sentence, but I think most Spike fans will. His behavior in Crush is insane, yes, and his days as a killer are even worse. But are you saying what he did for Buffy in the latter half of season 5--nearly sacrificing himself for Dawn, fighting Glory even though it could mean his death, and staying and protecting Buffy's friends even though she was gone--are you saying none of that had weight because he didn't have a soul?

Focusing on the evil aspect of Spike's character is just as unjust to him as only focusing on the good things he did. This is not the journey of an inherent hero like Buffy or Angel. It's the journey of an essentially bad man (I use the term loosely) finding a way to be good despite his inclinations. And he did it because he loved a girl, which is nice for us sappy romantics.

 

[saturn5]

Eh, I disagree with that last sentence, but I think most Spike fans will. His behavior in Crush is insane, yes, and his days as a killer are even worse. But are you saying what he did for Buffy in the latter half of season 5--nearly sacrificing himself for Dawn, fighting Glory even though it could mean his death, and staying and protecting Buffy's friends even though she was gone--are you saying none of that had weight because he didn't have a soul?

Focusing on the evil aspect of Spike's character is just as unjust to him as only focusing on the good things he did. This is not the journey of an inherent hero like Buffy or Angel. It's the journey of an essentially bad man (I use the term loosely) finding a way to be good despite his inclinations. And he did it because he loved a girl, which is nice for us sappy romantics.

Spike's story is that of a monster who is redeemed by a love beyond his control. Perhaps the closest other character to him is Darth Vader?

 

[Kelsey]

Spike's story is that of a monster who is redeemed by a love beyond his control. Perhaps the closest other character to him is Darth Vader?

Well, I'm obviously not going to convince you otherwise. It's been fun trying, though!

 

[saturn5]

Well, I'm obviously not going to convince you otherwise. It's been fun trying, though!

Oh please, keep trying. The Spike's redemption debate will really kick into high gear when we reach next season

 

[thevikingsgirl]

And it's such a fun thing to talk about! For me anyway, but I'm just one of those loser Spikettes 😉 In all seriousness though, I've found one of the best things about being in my 30s has been the ability to take myself much less seriously. In my 20s I was far too cool to giggle over fictional characters. Anyway...

 

[saturn5]

Nothing wrong with being a Spikette, I'm a hard core Fuffer myself