Crush Foreshadowing?

Buffy Summers

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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In Crush, Buffy, Willow & Tara are discussing The Hunchback of Notre Dame:

Cut to inside. Tara, Buffy, and Willow are walking along the hallways.

WILLOW: They could have the wedding right there. Beneath the very bell-tower where he labored thanklessly for all those years.

TARA: No, see, it can't, it can't end like that, 'cause all of Quasimodo's actions were selfishly motivated. He had no moral compass, no understanding of right. Everything he did, he did out of love for a woman who would never be able to love him back. (They come to a vending machine and stop walking. Tara digs in her purse. Willow looks in hers as well) Also, you can tell it's not gonna have a happy ending when the main guy's all bumpy.

(Source: Buffyworld)

David Fury wrote this episode, but do you think Tara's statement about selfish motivations is a statement on Spike as he is now? Does it still apply?
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Hello! I said that weeks ago!!
That you're own take on it. I don't see it that way myself.

I mean when is love not selfish? Most people motivated by love of another could be called that If that's the problems you have with it.
 
Considering what happened towards the end of the episode I just assumed it was a given. The episode was the birth of Spuffy and the opening sat the tone. Buffy did that often in the earlier seasons.
 
cryptwarmer
cryptwarmer
This is exactly my take on it.
I don't think Spike is selfish now . At least not as much as he was earler.
 
"Yes, I understand how a message board works."

As so do I. 🙂
 
Buffy Summers
Buffy Summers
Clearly not. Please use the quote tags when quoting, as you have been asked several times before.
"you can tell it's not gonna have a happy ending when the main guy's all bumpy"
 
Imagine if Xander hadn't truly moved on from fancying Buffy throughout multiple seasons of the show say-4 through 7 and he never had another love interest (unlike Xander who had Cordy then Willow then Faith then Anya...).
Wouldn't his motivations for being allied to Buffy and hanfging around her all the time be just a little bit suspect?

Oh he says he just wants to be friends and so forth but in reality he's still carrying that torch and his feelings never go away. So his being Buffy's ally always feels like an ulterior motive.
That's my feeling on Spike through Season 7, 8 and 9- he isn't simply her friend, he's being like Xander in Season 1/2.
 
ChaseRules
ChaseRules
Great ideas. That what exactly what I think. You cant count Faith thought since it was a one time thing . LOL
That's a reference to what came immediately after (S5, Spike realizing he loved Buffy and starting changing for love, and doing some good because of her), not about whom he became later, whom he is now. Spike is a Hero and a Champion, he had his time away from Buffy (Angel S5 and the comics), and proved that. Besides, the commentary don't apply to Buffy, either: "a woman who would never love him back" - she has already said that she fell in love with him.

And if he got a soul because of a selfish reason, it was the noblest reason of all - and he did it *to himself*, not to someonelse.
 
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I think it still applies because she's dating a vampire, that is never going to end well. Even if they stay together till Buffy is old and wrinkly herself, how do you think it will end? In a tragedy is what. Doesn't matter if it's Spike, or Angel, dating a vampire is problematic.

Cool find on the qu0te though, it's has to be a reference for sure, maybe not foreshadowing exactly, but they must have known what they were implying in saying that.
 
gite63
gite63
Because not dating a vampire doesn't end in tragedy... and in the novel, she dies before him.
I did like Buffy quipping about the singing gargoyles, still acting like a slacker-type. 🙂
 
cryptwarmer
cryptwarmer
then she said she was kidding...but I'm not sure I believed her
@gite63
Because not dating a vampire doesn't end in tragedy... and in the novel, she dies before him.
Click to expand...

But by dating a vamp there is literally no possibility for a happy ending, it will just never work, unless Buffy miraculously becomes a vampire with a soul too. Oh god I hope that never happens! But at least for the other relationships, as likely it is that it will end in tragedy, there is at least the possibility for a happy future.
 
I don't think the quote does apply to Spike post-ensoulment. He does it for selfish reasons. He wants to be something for Buffy and because of Buffy, but once it's done he comes to understand selflessness and makes the ultimate sacrifice for everyone, not just Buffy.

Pre-ensoulment Spike had no moral compass, he did whatever benefited him at that time.

As for a future (I've not read the comics btw) but I think, as much as I ship it, it's unrealistic to expect Spike and Buffy to be together forever. He will never age and she may want more in the future than he is willing or able to give. Sometimes love is enough and they may be happy for her to live to a ripe old age with him caring for her, but I can't see that. He would want Buffy to be happy, he loves her more than that.
 
Blaze said:
But at least for the other relationships, as likely it is that it will end in tragedy, there is at least the possibility for a happy future.
Click to expand...

So, even with the dangerous life style they all live in the Buffyverse, they should live thinking of the future, and not leave in the present, enjoying being with those they love?

Athena said:
Sometimes love is enough and they may be happy for her to live to a ripe old age with him caring for her, but I can't see that. He would want Buffy to be happy, he loves her more than that.
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That's nothing to do with what he wants - it would be her choice, since she is the one who will grow old (and the one who would not been able to get pregnant). If there's love, there's a way.

Highlander did it - Connor stayed with the love of his life till she died of old age. It was her choice to be that way, and he didn't get grossed out by her aging.
 
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gite63 said:
So, even with the dangerous life style they all live in the Buffyverse, they should live thinking of the future, and not leave in the present, enjoying being with those they love?
Click to expand...

I never said that. The question was weither or not this remark made by Tara was still relevant now, and it is, at least the "it won't end well" part. Because loving a vampire will always have its complications.
 
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