Crush Foreshadowing?

"it won't end well" part.

This part is on Joss. 😉

Because loving a vampire will always have its complications.

Loving someone (in a supernatural world) has always had its complications; it had for Will, for Tara, for Oz, for Anya, for Xander, for Giles, for Fred, for Gunn, for Wesley and Lilah. Death, betrayal, cowardice, estrangement, life threatening moments, and the list could go on.
 
Blaze
Blaze
For me the issues of dating a vampire will always be > than the ones of dating a human
At least it better than being with Angel would have been what with the whole curse thing .
 
At least it better than being with Angel would have been what with the whole curse thing .

If it wasn't the curse, I don't see anything that could keep them apart (back then) because of him being a vampire... just normal relationship stuff, like maybe a teen Buffy not been able to deal well with Angel's dwelling on his past and evil actions too much.
 
Lets not forgot Angel liked & still likes to brood. Not something you do on a date 🙄
 
The Mayor, Joyce, Angel, Willow and even Buffy knew that romance with a vampire wouldn't work out well at all- nothing to do with the curse.
Just watch S3 'The Prom' and see actual grown-up realisation that now seems to be dawning on Buffy yet again in S10.
 
I agree with you on that . But also Spoke seems to be more into Buffy world than Angel so we have to see how that works out.
 
When the Mayor married his wife, probably she didn't know about his dealings with demons to become immortal; she got to grow old and he didn't, and that should have hurt. He had a personal opinion on the matter – because for him, it didn't work.

Angel left Buffy because they couldn't be together; if it wasn't the curse (and his show...), he wouldn't have left. He and Buffy in a sexless relationship would never had worked in the long run, as much as she wanted to (and propably Will saw that, too). And later, Angel fell in love with Cordelia and was willing to pursue a relationship with her. And there was Nina.

Joyce was a mom, she wanted the perfect, perfect guy for her daughter, of course.

And the love lives of Willow and Joyce weren't models of perfect happiness - Will ended up being a victim of a tragedy (so much for having a normal life around the Slayer), and Joyce's taste for men were very questionable (including Buffy's father), with her even doubting her own daughter in favor of a... robot.
 
The Mayor had the advantage of actual experience and truth, Angel and Buffy were in denial.

Angel left Buffy for many (in-verse) reasons- most of which were to do with him being a vampire and Buffy deserving something more than darkness and death in her personal life.

Joyce was an adult who married her high school sweetheart -who later cheated on her- but she got Buffy out of the deal so it can't have been all bad. Hank may have screwed up Buffy's perceptions of men, that's not on Joyce.
Besides she met a great guy- Brina- right before her death.
Oh, and Ted drugged Joyce and all of them- tha's why she took his 'side' over Buffy's. It's mentioned in the actual episode.

Willow's love life is healthier than either Buffy's or Xander's- she sees that something isn't working for her (like Alywyn) she ends it before it ends badly.
If only Bufyf learned the same lessons.
 
I agree with you on that. Angel couldn't be with Buffy because that wasn't his destiny .
The PTB set them up don't forgot .

And you right with Willow .
And Xander love was just as bad . The only people who came on to him was Demons . Even Anya . Case in Point.
 
The Mayor had the advantage of actual experience and truth, Angel and Buffy were in denial.

The Mayor was an evil sorcerer, and god knows what type of woman was his wife; as I said before, she could have resented that he didn't get the immortal deal for her, too... and if I'm not mistaken, she got senile and started lashing out against her husband - and that happens a lot in real life, unfortunately, sometimes with couples who had lived happily together.

Aside the Mayor, we don't have any other case of an immortal living with a mortal, and how things could go for the people involved; what we do have is people (in-verse and fans) saying that it doesn't work.

And, yes, immortality (or mortality and getting old) is a problem; no one would be comfortable being with someone that, as years pass by, stay young, while you reach a point that you can't even walk, or do something by yourself - and I'm not even talking about looks. But if a person chooses to face it, why not? For Connor MacLeod and his mortal wife, it worked.

Angel left Buffy for many (in-verse) reasons- most of which were to do with him being a vampire and Buffy deserving something more than darkness and death in her personal life.

And as soon as he left, there was no more darkness and death in her life...

So, if it wasn't the curse, Angel, who started an affair with a virgin young girl, would say (after some months of smooching at the cemetery as well as lots of sex) to her: "it was good, but you deserve so much more than me. I'm doing what's best for you. I'm leaving." He would be way worst than Parker then.

she sees that something isn't working for her (like Alywyn) she ends it before it ends badly.

Aluwyn is a deceitful, liar demon; the relationship wasn't making Willow happy or feeling safe or at easy with her. Spike makes Buffy happy, as she herself said. And Aluwyn wouldn't change, not not so much because she is an immortal, but because she is... a deceitful, liar demon.
 
So did we come to a consensus if it was foreshadowing Captain Peroxide or not?
 
So did we come to a consensus if it was foreshadowing Captain Peroxide or not?

We like to wander out of topic a lot, don't we?

For me, it wasn't foreshadowing, it was just a pertinent commentary about the situation that would develop in S5 (when Spike would do some good not out of the goodness of his heart, but to please Buffy, like not drinking blood of disaster victims...), smartly added to the script by Fury. Unless he really had some real skills to foresee the future, including Spike getting his soul in S6...
 
For me, it wasn't foreshadowing, it was just a pertinent commentary about the situation that would develop in S5
So the Quasimodo speech had no bearing on the fact that at the end of the episode Spike would finally state his love for Buffy?

"when Spike would do some good not out of the goodness of his heart, but to please Buffy," that is exactly what the Quasimodo speech is talking about. He didn't do it for the right reasons. He did it for selfish motivations. All of that to me seems to suggest that Spike is, or was, Quasimodo. That was foreshadowing, and explaining why the Buffy/Spike relationship would not work.
 
So the Quasimodo speech had no bearing on the fact that at the end of the episode Spike would finally state his love for Buffy?

"when Spike would do some good not out of the goodness of his heart, but to please Buffy," that is exactly what the Quasimodo speech is talking about. He didn't do it for the right reasons. He did it for selfish motivations. All of that to me seems to suggest that Spike is, or was, Quasimodo. That was foreshadowing, and explaining why the Buffy/Spike relationship would not work.

Yes, Spike was Quasimodo, but what I meant is that it is not valid now. Spike isn't Quasimodo anymore...

It was related to the episode, and to what would happen in S5. And could be applied to S6, but I don't think they knew what would happened that far ahead.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Ah. Ok.
I think while Spike did get his soul back to please Buffy after he did he relazed the truth & didn't put pressure on her .

At the end of S7 when Buffy said she loved him he said back " No but thanks for saying so " he was being selfless.
 
Aside the Mayor, we don't have any other case of an immortal living with a mortal

Yeah, the one and only case ended badly. There might be a moral there...
Also evil people tell uncomfortable truthes, its a theme in Bufyf/Angel.

As Anya says 'I used to tell the truth all the time when I was evil'

And as soon as he left, there was no more darkness and death in her life...

No, not none but significantly less.
Buffy is aa lot happier and less angsty in S4 and the first half of S5

So, if it wasn't the curse, Angel, who started an affair with a virgin young girl,

🙄
He didn't 'start' anything, there was no eloborate seduction, it was a mutual attraction between them. Vampire with a soul and slayer...
But whatever, I guess we're back to trashing ships now.

Just to be clear I have no dog in this fight, I would say exactly the same about Buffy/Angel- they at least know that they were doomed and so it ended. Spike is too self-indulgent to care.

But he might (finally) be coming to that same realisation.

He would be way worst than Parker then.

In what way?
Parker led Buffy on, lied to her about his true intentions and then pretty much dumped her after using her. He compared her to a toilet.

Angel respected Buffy enough to tell her his reasons for breaking up with her, he cared for her and it tore him up emotionally.

If you can't tell the difference then that's your problem.

I wonder if you'll compare Spike to Parker when he dumps her after finally 'getting what he wanted'...

Aluwyn is a deceitful, liar demon;

Alywyn lied less to Willow than Spike-with a soul has to Buffy.


OT- 'Crush' was foreshadowing for the doomed ship Spuffy. Even Tara thought so. 🙂
 
"I wonder if you'll compare Spike to Parker when he dumps her after finally 'getting what he wanted'..."

Blimey, so you've got a direct link to the minds of the comic book writers then? Because apart from that one cover we don't know how this is going to pan out. Yes, separation is most likely (this is still the Whedonverse after all), but how and why we don't yet know.

And as for the Mayor's comments in season 3. Well I doubt he was telling them this 'truth' for their own good. I suspect he was mainly trying to throw a spanner in their works as there's nothing like decent to unnerve the opposition.
 
Yeah, the one and only case ended badly. There might be a moral there...
Also evil people tell uncomfortable truthes, its a theme in Bufyf/Angel.

True it didn't work out with the Mayor & his Wife but for all we know she didn't know anything about him being immortal.
Or begin a magic user. So that could be one reason that it ended badly.
 
thetopher
thetopher
Quite possible.
Foreshadowing was probably not the right word to use.

Yes, Spike was Quasimodo, but what I meant is that it is not valid now. Spike isn't Quasimodo anymore...

I would say it is, because his life is still all about Buffy, all about pleasing her - everything he does is for the love of Buffy.

"I wonder if you'll compare Spike to Parker when he dumps her after finally 'getting what he wanted'..."

Blimey, so you've got a direct link to the minds of the comic book writers then?

Please leave these kinds of comments at the door.
 
Oh I'm so sorry, perhaps badly phrased, but my query still stands. How does he know thats going to happen?
 
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