Dang, Faith IS a good leader

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wehappyfew

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So, to stem off of the many "empty spaces" thread. I am watching Angel "Salvage" this evening and Faith actually knows her stuff.
She walks in and totally takes control...without the annoying superiority of Buffy.
I dig.

Just goes to show that as mundane sounding and appearing as they may be by Buffyverse standards...Caleb, the First and the Bringers really knew how to mess things up for the Scoobies. It wasn't Buffy's fault for what happened at the vineyard and it wasn't Faith's fault for what happened at the Hellmouth. They're both bomb at what they do...but somehow the Big Bad was able to beat them both back.
 
Faith was able to handle leading a small group of people in an attempt to capture Angelus so that he could have his soul restored. As it eventually turned out, that group was, essentially, Wesley, who was more a partner than a follower. The only real opposition to her leadership was Connor. She did quite well at what she did for a few days, but there was very little actual leading involved, not in the sense that Buffy was doing in Sunnydale at the same time. Buffy's superiority might have indeed been annoying, but that didn't make it any less real.
 
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I think what made Faith a good leader in season 4 of Angel compared to her not wanting it in season 7 of Buffy was what was going down. In Angel she knew she had to get Angelus back in to containment so he could have his soul restored and that was it. In Buffy leadership was on a grander scale of fighting The First, protecting the Potentials, helping the Scooby Gang and finding acceptance from everyone.

Faith could only handle leadership tasks on a smaller scale I think thats what made her a better and good leader in Angel than in Buffy.
 
Faith is a terrible leader. She totally screwed up the girls in the end of season seven, whereas the all-powerful Buffy was head on. I admit, she did an amazing job with the Angel investigations team, but I mostly think that because she beat on Connor. 😀

Love her though.
 
Angel Investigations was already an established team who had more than enough experience with Supernatural Baddies. They didn't need to be lead. They just needed somebody strong and skilled enough to help them capture Angelus.

The potentials on the other hand were a bunch of little girls who were new to the world of demons. They needed a good leader and Faith failed them.
 
I personally think Buffy is a better leader, even though she's made some mistakes. She just seems... better at it.

But Faith is amazing at it too. I loved how she wupped Connor's ass. Connor would've been so much more aptly prepared for everything that happened in S4 with Faith around.
 
I actually don't think Faith was that bad of a leader. The situation was virtually irreconcilable from a leadership perspective and Buffy also struggled. Being a leader to the capacity of which we see in Season 7 was relatively new for Buffy as well. Buffy was a leader of a relatively small group up until now. Faith found herself in the same situation that Buffy was in: as a reluctant leader. Buffy's leadership grew with the Scoobies and this wasn't always a straight leadership. In some respects it was a partnership with Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles all contributing to strategy creating more of a cooperative environment. However Season 7 was a different animal and required a different tack. The irony was the approach she used ended up alienating her and one of her strengths before was the connections she had with others to whom she literally owes her life (especially to Xander).

Buffy was caught in a rock and hard place and when Faith was placed in charge she wondered how the original Slayer coped as well as she did! Given the situation I think it's hard to judge Faith after essentially one mistake, as if Buffy hadn't made any. I think Faith did remarkably well given her lack of experience in a group role. Give her more time perhaps? However, she needs to be willing and I think Faith is more comfortable by herself but as with Buffy circumstance doesn't always allow it. I wonder how well Faith would fare given another opportunity to lead?
 
Faith kicks ass. She can be a damn good leader, but in reality....she's a rogue at heart. In my opinion she kicks even more ass that way.
 
Well to be fair Buffy had 6+ years of practice before the potentials came her way, Faith was a lone Slayer for about half a season before going to prison.
 
Summerlilly said:
Faith kicks ass. She can be a damn good leader, but in reality....she's a rogue at heart. In my opinion she kicks even more ass that way.
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Yeah...I think that's what makes her so badass.

I guess, I was more amazed with how Faith came in, and had already assessed the others' strenghts/weaknesses...she had listened to her watcher (they still have that relationship, even without the titles) and knew where to go from there.
she got the bigger picture right away.
the mission was to save angel...and connor being all stake-happy wasn't the answer.
cut to an episode later when she doesn't risk wesley's life to kill angel....of course, she makes mistakes.

but in "salvage" i was just amazed with her delegation and how down to earth she was.
buffy always sounds like she's so special and tough and it's annoying. love the girl though.
it's like because faith was a rogue she was able to see things a little more clearly and on a different level than buffy.

i've always supported season 7 buffy...but after seeing AS4 Faith...it makes me think about the speeches and choices Buffy was making.
 
VisionGuy said:
Angel Investigations was already an established team who had more than enough experience with Supernatural Baddies. They didn't need to be lead. They just needed somebody strong and skilled enough to help them capture Angelus.

The potentials on the other hand were a bunch of little girls who were new to the world of demons. They needed a good leader and Faith failed them.
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I wouldn't say failed, but yeah. The potentials were teenagers with no experience whatsoever. On the other hand, Angel Inc. were each pretty seasoned:

Gunn - ran his own team once, and could go toe-to-toe with most any vamp.

Wes - was the one who trained Faith herself (not that it went well, lol). But had the training & skill by S4. He also lead his own team and could go toe-to-toe with most vamps.

Connor - trained by both Holtz & Angel, outside of Angel, Buffy, Spike & Faith, one of the most formidable warriors.

Faith didn't lead Fred, but Fred was still a heck of a lot more seasoned than the potentials--she did survive a hell dimension on her own.

I'd say in a pure combat situation, with seasoned warriors, Faith would do fine as a field leader. But to be honest, I'd say Wes was the only one that really showed off the skills to win a conventional battle (in Pylea).

Even Angel's just mediocre as a leader, a lot of his victories aren't decisive, and almost all of his "Lieutenants" have been killed:

Doyle
Cordy
Fred
Gunn
Wes

Spike & Lorne are the only ones left and to be fair, Spike is a damned good survivor and Lorne is very hard to kill (harder than any other members of the Scoobies or Angel Inc.)
 
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