Dark Willow: When did she become Dark?

[Spuffy is true love]

OK somethin' that just popped into my head as I was reading some posts and me commenting on some Angel/Angelus posts is the evolution of Willow to Dark/Darth Willow, whichever you prefer. Where do you think she ceased being willow and began to be Dark Willow. Do you think it was a physical thing or a spiritual thing? When Tara was first killed she called on Osiris to bring her back but it could not happen, Willow had those completely dark eyes and huge anger, I don't think she was evil yet, just grieving. When she went to the magic shop sucked all the black magic out that turned her hair black she I believe she was searching for a way to bring Tara back and instead of ammunition to kill Warren. Then she goes to the hospital and removes the bullet from Buffy. She saved Buffy's life and so not entirely evil yet. When they left to go find Warren she forced Xander to go faster, endangering their lives. Not quite evil yet. When they finally stop the bus and the robot Warren walks out and Buffy and Xander are both trying to tell her not to overreact she doesn't listen. IT's at this moment that she kills the Warren Bot and makes up in her mind that she will kill Warren. This is the point where she becomes evil. She hurts the people she cares about the most and leaves them by using magic. This signifies her leaving the old willow behind and evolving to evil through magic. What do you think?

 

[The Ferg]

OK somethin' that just popped into my head as I was reading some posts and me commenting on some Angel/Angelus posts is the evolution of Willow to Dark/Darth Willow, whichever you prefer. Where do you think she ceased being willow and began to be Dark Willow. Do you think it was a physical thing or a spiritual thing? When Tara was first killed she called on Osiris to bring her back but it could not happen, Willow had those completely dark eyes and huge anger, I don't think she was evil yet, just grieving. When she went to the magic shop sucked all the black magic out that turned her hair black she I believe she was searching for a way to bring Tara back and instead of ammunition to kill Warren. Then she goes to the hospital and removes the bullet from Buffy. She saved Buffy's life and so not entirely evil yet. When they left to go find Warren she forced Xander to go faster, endangering their lives. Not quite evil yet. When they finally stop the bus and the robot Warren walks out and Buffy and Xander are both trying to tell her not to overreact she doesn't listen. IT's at this moment that she kills the Warren Bot and makes up in her mind that she will kill Warren. This is the point where she becomes evil. She hurts the people she cares about the most and leaves them by using magic. This signifies her leaving the old willow behind and evolving to evil through magic. What do you think?

I think that's when she truly turned "dark". Just imo.

 

[Spuffy is true love]

that is when most people believe she went dark. but remember in season 5 after Tara was turned all psycho? willow got those dark eyes again and went after Glory. People don't call her Dark Willow at that point. That's why i don't think she truly became evil until much later. Not to mention that through all of season 6 she got those dark eyes and used extremely powerful magicks. Bargaining pt 1&2 anybody? just because she called on osiris doesn't mean she went truly evil

 

[girlunstrung]

She went Dark when Tara died. There's no question in my mind about that.

 

[hidden]

my opinion is she turned into dark willow when osiris said no

 

[Angelic Slayer]

To me, Willow really became "dark willow" at the moment that she took her first human life. Osiris saying no triggered it, then came the spellbooks, then the clothing-- but even as Buffy and Xander were in the car with her trying to find Warren she was still Willow somewhere deep down. She cared enough to save Buffy's life before she sought out revenge-- which I think counts for something.

Next major event after this is when she skins Warren, when she really trips over the edge. It's the first time she kills and after that she is just set to go. No longer is she thinking (even a little) rationally, and now she's out to kill two dweebs and anyone who stands in her way. She even starts taking punches at Dawn, which definitely shows a HUGE change in character.

Just my two cents, depends on how you look at it I suppose

 

[Nabila]

It's true she CEASED being Willow when she killed Warren. But I think she went DARK already when she killed the fawn for the ritual to bring Buffy back. Her attittude already changed drastically after she brought Buffy back. Remember her confrontation with Giles. She was all arrogant when Giles was just concerned for her's and everybodyelse's well-being. I mean they all knew that Giles was involved in heavy black magic in his youth which he has regretted. From the beginning of Willow's involvement in magic, Giles always advised her to be careful, and she showed respect for that. This time around she even threatened Giles that he shouldn't p*** her off since she's so powerful. That, to me, is dark, and the beggining of Willow getting swallowed by something else..

 

[caitaintdead]

I have an unfounded theory that it was something to do with when she started visiting Rack. This was the first time that she started putting her magick before the people she loved.

 

[Xin Rong]

Yes I'd say she went dark after osiris said no aswell, because that when we saw the emotional breakdown, you can see as she enters the magick shop she had gone beyond rationality and reason and had clearly gone to the dark side

 

[Spuffy is true love]

I have an unfounded theory that it was something to do with when she started visiting Rack. This was the first time that she started putting her magick before the people she loved.

Eh, that's when she became addicted to magic. Putting something before your friends does not make you evil, if that's the case them I"m satan. Addiction is not the same as being completely evil. Plus after she got Dawn hurt she started to rehabilitate and you can't tell me that when her and Tara got back together she was evil. I still think that it happened after she made up her mind to kill Warren and didn't care what anyone else thought.

 

[palabravampiress]

I think asking when Willow became evil sort of requires an answer to the question of what constitutes evil in the Buffyverse, and that only got grayer and grayer as the seasons progressed. I don't know the answer to that question, so I can't say I know when she became evil.


I CAN say I think she crossed her own personal Rubicon River of black magic badness when she took a human life, though. I think that was a huge turning point for her.

 

[SoBlind]

mm thats really hard. i guess like most ppl have already mentioned she turned evil when she killed warren. cos after that her mind was set to "one down. two to go". however, DARK, in my opinion, she became when osiris said no to bringing tara back to life. at that point she still cared about her friends (hence saving buffy) but then she succeeded at killing warren and since she was so determined to bring down andrew and jonathan as well, ppl standing in her way (buffy) became a threat to her. i think the killing being a factor here is also supported by her stilling referring to buffy as her friend towards warren ("Oh. You mean, instead of killing my best friend you killed my girlfriend."). but, and heres another big 'however', right before she killed him she said "bored now.", and THAT is definitely a reference to vamp willow, who is obviously evil. to conclude, i think she became dark after taras death but became evil while hunting down warren in the woods

 

[perrytvs]

I don't think Willow was ever evil.
Willow was an addict, she never got proper treatment, she quit on her own, and then Tara's death brought out so much emotion that the magic just sort of happened again. She needed to find some way to resolve her pain because Tara's death could not be reversed. The power she absorbed mixed with her rage made her a powerful being, something Willow never could have been without magic. She killed Warren to make the pain from Tara's death go away, and after that she knew she could never be Willow again, only because the power was stronger than her own will. She wasn't evil, she was just king of the world and in pain, like having 6 million dollars fall into your lap, you're gone it's just the money now...

 

[Joyce Summers]

I appreciate what you're saying about the power and addiction taking her over, but...Willow was never evil?

Hmm, I don't think I agree with that. Flaying a guy alive is twisted, trying to kill his friends is murderous, trying to kill Dawn, attacking Buffy and Anya, and almost killing Giles- That was evil. She was totally evilled out when she was planning on turning Dawn back into a ball of energy. When you not only stop caring about the ones you love, but have intent to hurt them, that's weakness for giving into that power and evil for the new intent. It was only taking Giles' magic which came from a good natural source that took all that evil and reminded her of the pain that caused it. After all, all evil comes from some form of pain; it doesn't make it any less evil.

 

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

I do agree that in season 5 when she went after Glory was the first time she got a taste of the "darkness". she wasn't all the way though at that point. If we are talking all the way Dark Willow, yes, after she couldn't bring Tara back. She just let the grief and rage consume her at that point.

 

[InsaneMystic]

I've never been comfortable with the "good/evil" thing... but IMO, there was significant darkness in Willow far, far earlier than Tara's death.

I'm not bragging here... when I first heard her not-so-subtly threatening Giles (was this in "Afterlife"?) I thought "Oh my gosh... that magic changed her, a lot" and actually thought even then that she might become the Big Bad of the season (Joss managed to bring me off that track successfully when he did that hilarious introduction of the Trio).

Enjoying power for power's sake, and letting people who are your closest friends and confidants for years (specifically, Giles and Tara) know that you don't care sh*t about their worries, that's pretty damn dark in my book, and that was right from the start of the season. The "Forget" spell on Tara sent shivers down my spine; I don't see how anyone can rate selfishly messing with the mind of a loved one less dark than lynching a murderer (actually, quite a number of people I know would rate the former more evil).

"Upping the level" to actual killing is merely another step down the spiral, a gradual change, not a categoric one... even though I agree that this was pretty much the point of no return, when the Wilow we knew was completely gone. I mean, once you're so deep in that power is everything to you, why care if you use it to kill? Remember, Willow had "lorded (ladied?) over Life and Death" before... so why not think "Heck I did it one way, so I can do it the other way around too".

Actually, this whole arc was pretty much the best treatment of the subject of addiction I've seen on TV (and that was exactly what made me unable to bear watching the show for a couple of weeks on first airing... just hit home a bit too well for my taste). Addiction is always darkside... and I'm not sure where to draw the line exactly when Willow became an addict - her visiting Rack seemed only to push it to a new level, it had stopped being healthy LONG before that.

 

[InsaneMystic]

I noticed you like Willow, Whats her best season?(got to be s6)

I still haven't seen all of S4, so I may well be underrating her in that season... but yes, clearly S6 for that shiveringly convincing portrayal of the downward spiral of addiction and the Darth Rosenberg thing... but in S3 she was also great (well, greater than she always is 🙂 - and I'm not just talking about the obvious - Wish/Doppel - but also her heartbreaking reaction to Faith/Xander in "Consequences" and pretty much the whole ep "Choices").

 

[Kana]

I definitely feel Willow's need for control was the source. I know I've said this a million times but I still liken her to Warren in some ways. Both are insecure people who use their intellect (whether it's in technology or magic) to control the world around them. As it's been said, people often get bogged down on her addiction magic rather than her almost pathological need for control.

After Tara died, Willow needed to control events more than ever. It was the climax but not the main source of where this 'darkness' came from. I'm not going to go through the chronology because it's already been looked at but I agree that it happened in degrees and was multifaceted.

 

[kiben]

Everyone has pretty much brought up a number of instances that would point to Willow going dark (prior to her killing the robot Warren). I always saw those moments as glimpses into Willow's potential to be evil. I definitely saw her killing the robot Warren as the point when she gave in.

 

[czarina]

I think magic is a dangerous thing in the Buffyverse. Its fine when under control, but when someone begins to give in to the idea of the power that it can bring them, they invite that darkness to come in. Willow didn't go "evil" until she couldn't resurrect Tara and went to kill Warren in season 6. I would say instead of going evil, she rather lost sight of her humanity, but either way that was the big shift.
I think there were signs of danger earlier on though. You can point to her over reliance on magic, her visits to Rack, and the Glory thing as early flags. I think you can reference another event too. I didn't see anyone mention the episode "Something Blue." There she became overconfident in her power and crossed the line, trying to make Oz love her again to negative results. At the end D' Hoffryn offered to make her a vegeance demon. You could say it was because he thought she caused the chaos on purpose, but on some level he must have recognized that potential for her to go either way. He recognized that she was not unwilling to cross the line with her magic and that those boundaries between the appropriate and innappropriate uses of magic were still a little hazy for her. As a result he attempted to court her for the dark side if you will.
I think its just a boundary issue. If you become overconfident in your ability to manipulate the world around you and over reliant on magic, that darkness can take root a spread. Thats how you get a Doc or a Rack. If you can keep that power under control and you remain grounded, than disaster can be avoided.