Question Dawn´s Memories

[Karol]

Ok, we are supposed to believe that the monks made everybody memories, like Dawn was part of the family since ever...

Now, how come J.Masters says that Dawn likes Spike ´cause she doesn´t know he is evil? Buffy says that too. What about School Hard, for example? Or they just changed EVERYTHING or their lifes? No, cause she remembers Angel...

I got really confused.

 

[hazzard]

dawn would have been really young during school hard, season 2, etc. so maybe she doesn't remember, was too young to understand, or they didn't tell her about spike then.

 

[Dancing man]

Maybe they didnt tell her things like that to try and keep her chilhood normal.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

We can tell from the effect on the pictures and house whilst Buffy is under the "Tirer la Couture" that when Dawn was inserted into this reality, the monks generally opted for the path of least resistance. Pictures were ammended, but not completely changed; things were added to the current room, rather than things actually being moved or changed etc.

Obviously, specific memories had to be completely made up, rather than ammended (such as the carousel, and Joyce and Hank bringing Dawn home in The Weight of the World) but in general it is to be assumed that events transpired as close as possible to the original reality. Because of this, and because of Dawns serious hate of babysitters, I think it's best to assume that she was often carted off to one of Joyce's friends, or someone came over to look after her. She was very sheltered from the whole Hellmouth side of Sunnydale (her immaturity in the face of danger shows this) so I think it's safe to assume that Dawn was never involved in any way with Spike or anything bumpy.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Not related to the original post but to the topic. I always assumed that it was the memory of Dawn which caused Joyces brain aneurism. When the sickness first hit, Joyce immediately knew that Dawn was not her daughter. I always felt, that being a mother and the bond formed with child, was stronger than the memories the monks placed in her noodle. I always felt that Dawn killed Joyce (indirectly of course)

Opinions? or was that a given?

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I prefer Joyce's death being entirely natural. I think that was very important, and if there was a mystical element, I'd feel a little cheated.

But then again, I don't hate Dawn. :silly:

 

[Joyce Summers]

I don't hate Dawn at all (she is one of my favorite characters actually....), but Scobro brings up a point that I'd always considered myself. The timing just seemed too matched. I mean she was perfectly well until a week after Dawn arrived (Joyce's first headache occurring in....The Replacement? I think?) and the first side effect of the tumor was seeing the reality of Dawn being erm...well non-reality. This is a totally plausible connection I think, but it just might be bad placement timing on the part of the writers, haha.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I don't hate Dawn at all (she is one of my favorite characters actually....), but Scobro brings up a point that I'd always considered myself. The timing just seemed too matched. I mean she was perfectly well until a week after Dawn arrived (Joyce's first headache occurring in....The Replacement? I think?) and the first side effect of the tumor was seeing the reality of Dawn being erm...well non-reality. This is a totally plausible connection I think, but it just might be bad placement timing on the part of the writers, haha.

Then factor into the equation she got "better" and was fine at the hospital, but when she got back home she got sick all over again. It was the monks mojo (combined with her desire to leave the show) that killed her. The death, although played naturally, was not a natural death.

 

[Karol]

I think they just mixed up everything xD There are thousand of time when people just crushed all the house down... for me still doesnt make sense that Dawn was away from home every single time Spike was all evil and killing people there.

And about Joyce... it was natural, Joss said in the interview... I think we can´t especulate about something the writer wasnt thinking =P

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

She was supposed to be killed earlier though. Not that that counts for anything, but it's something to think about. Plus, you say Joyce's first headache was in the Replacement - do you actually believe that? If I know Joyce, it's been happening for a while without her saying anything. But this is all speculation, and I've not seen the eps recently enough to properly comment.

And is anyone else a little weirded out by Joyce Summers talking about Joyce Summers' death?

 

[EveryNiteISaveU]

Ok, we are supposed to believe that the monks made everybody memories, like Dawn was part of the family since ever...

Now, how come J.Masters says that Dawn likes Spike ´cause she doesn´t know he is evil? Buffy says that too. What about School Hard, for example? Or they just changed EVERYTHING or their lifes? No, cause she remembers Angel...

I got really confused.

Darling,

I think that you can approach it in thinking Dawn was "innocent" in terms of her "age" that they plucked her into. She was what, 13-ish when she started and she had that young innocence and could possibly see Spike started to turn into good before anyone else.

Also.. I thnk the writers wrote in Dawn as the "key" and people having implanted memories of her bc of the outrage of fans...we had never even HEARD of Buffy having a sister up until that point. I still think that they should have said that she did have a sister all along, but had been living with their dead-beat dad and needed to move in w/ them. THat would have been more plausible in my opinion!!

 

[Skanky Vamp]

And about Joyce... it was natural, Joss said in the interview...

He also said cheeseman meant nothing but we know that was a little fib. Come on, he cant come out a say Dawn committed matricide

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Honey,

The writers knew. Be back before Dawn, Little Miss Muffet and all.


(I couldn't resist the Honey thing, sorry...)

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Honey,

The writers knew. Be back before Dawn, Little Miss Muffet and all.


(I couldn't resist the Honey thing, sorry...)

What's that got to do with her killing Joyce??


and i dont really dig on being called honey, sorry.. especially by a man

 

[Karol]

Darling,

I think that you can approach it in thinking Dawn was "innocent" in terms of her "age" that they plucked her into. She was what, 13-ish when she started and she had that young innocence and could possibly see Spike started to turn into good before anyone else.

Also.. I thnk the writers wrote in Dawn as the "key" and people having implanted memories of her bc of the outrage of fans...we had never even HEARD of Buffy having a sister up until that point. I still think that they should have said that she did have a sister all along, but had been living with their dead-beat dad and needed to move in w/ them. THat would have been more plausible in my opinion!!

The thing is... they made a mess with the memory thing. The thing about the key and the change of things, ok... but they didn´t change the hole history of Sunnydale, right? Or they are just pretending never happend or Dawn is damn stupid girl. People tryed to kill her mom twice, in their house,

I think they had this awsome idea of her with Spike, like brothers and just ignored the rest of it xD See, it´s possible not to hate him, no problem, what´s annoying is their explanation about that, it´s impossible that a 13-year old girl don´t get evil people xD

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

The thing is... they made a mess with the memory thing. The thing about the key and the change of things, ok... but they didn´t change the hole history of Sunnydale, right? Or they are just pretending never happend or Dawn is damn stupid girl. People tryed to kill her mom twice, in their house,

I think they had this awsome idea of her with Spike, like brothers and just ignored the rest of it xD See, it´s possible not to hate him, no problem, what´s annoying is their explanation about that, it´s impossible that a 13-year old girl don´t get evil people xD

Remember though, Joyce loved Spike too. Is it difficult to believe that she only saw that side to him, rather than the bumpy version? Joyce was exactly the same.

 

[Karol]

Remember though, Joyce loved Spike too. Is it difficult to believe that she only saw that side to him, rather than the bumpy version? Joyce was exactly the same.

YAY! We have a winner! Fbf! o/

You made a good point... Probably you´re right xD