Dawn as the Key

[PrincessZombie]

Could Dawn have been deactivated as the key? In the episode Intervention, when Glory's minions bring Spike to her thinking that he is the key, she says:

GLORY: Really? That's fantabulous! And impossible. He can't be the key, because, see, the key ... has to be pure. This is a vampire. Lesson number one, vampires equal impure.

So if Dawn had been turned into a vampire, or if she killed a bunch of people, or something like that, and became unpure, would she have still been the Key? Or did Glory only know that she had to be pure because Ben let it slip that the Key was an innocent?

 

[Wicked]

thats a good point. hmm, glory didnt know what the key was. i guess she was just assuming since it was human that it had to be pure. in the beginning when she didnt know it was human, she wouldnt have thought of it being pure cos it wouldnt be blood that opened it. which brings up another whole thing thats already been discussed elsewhere 🙂

 

[The Arcane]

No, i don't believe it woukd have worked that way.

I think that Glory was suggesting that the Key would not have been made in the form of something so absolutely impure as a soulless demon. Had the Key been anything else then the question of it being pure would be irrelevant. Of course a bicycle pump is pure, or a rock is pure. they are simply inanimate objects.

Once she knew that the Key was in human form then the question of purity became an issue, not to mention at least a minor clue as to who the Key wasn't, as in the case of Spike or any other being tainted by evil or demonic forces.

Your basic run of the mill human though, even if they had done wrong in the past, would probably qualify as "pure", because they at least had a soul to begin with, therefore not evil be definition.

 

[Wicked]

im fairly sure thats what i said! did it not come across like that or are you just showing your incredible knack for sharing my thoughts again? 😛

 

[The Arcane]

im fairly sure thats what i said! did it not come across like that or are you just showing your incredible knack for sharing my thoughts again? 😛

Hehe, we do seem to share the same opinions about ... oh i don't know ... 99.9% of the time! Some kind of weird psychic connection maybe? Hmmmmmm! 😀

 

[Wicked]

yeah, i did notice it happening occasionally 😛

 

[PrincessZombie]

So you think that if Dawn had somehow been attacked and turned into a vampire, she'd still be the Key?

 

[The Arcane]

So you think that if Dawn had somehow been attacked and turned into a vampire, she'd still be the Key?

Now that is a good question. However, the thing is that Dawn simply was the Key. It wasn't a power she possessed that she could give up, or something she could lose in any other way for that matter. It was just what she was.

If she were to be made a vampire then i imagine she would still have been the Key, simply because there was no way that she could have stopped being, at least until she had been used in the way she was destined to be.

Having said that, we still don't know for certain that Dawn did ever stop being the Key, even after The Gift. There was no way of knowing that until someone attempted to use her to open the dimensional barriers again, which never happened, so who knows what she really is still capable of?

 

[Kimm]

Now that is a good question. However, the thing is that Dawn simply was the Key. It wasn't a power she possessed that she could give up, or something she could lose in any other way for that matter. It was just what she was.

If she were to be made a vampire then i imagine she would still have been the Key, simply because there was no way that she could have stopped being, at least until she had been used in the way she was destined to be.

Having said that, we still don't know for certain that Dawn did ever stop being the Key, even after The Gift. There was no way of knowing that until someone attempted to use her to open the dimensional barriers again, which never happened, so who knows what she really is still capable of?

Interesting point. I think most people just assume that after The Gift Dawn became human but that was never actually confirmed.

 

[Wicked]

it was mentioned more than once that dawn wasnt the key anymore but that may have just been dawn, buffy, etc assuming. cos how could she turn human? how would that work if she wasnt in the first place? or was she. she may have always been human, just with the special energy inside her.

 

[HellGods]

I think that if Dawn were turned into a vampire.. then the key would be tainted, thus ineffectual. OR the key would turned back into it's original form. Whatever that may be. I'm not really sure which one would be true. Good question though.

EDIT: oh and I still think Dawn was the key even after "The Gift". She was the key, the key was her, therefor she can't just be rid of it just because it was used.

 

[Helpless]

That's an interesting point however, I don't think Dawn can be deactivated. Then monks sent her to Buffy in the form of a human...she stays that way.

I think what the "pure" thing means is that they have to start off that way. If Dawn was sired or what not I don't think it really would have mattered. She was the key and she would stay that way, I believe.

 

[watcher1006]

From the conversation that Buffy has with Gregor inside the abandoned station in "Spiral", it sounds as though the Key could be destroyed. That was the intention of Gregor and his knights. He also implies that the monks could have destroyed the Key themselves but tried to use it for their own purposes.

But, given what Willow says to Dawn inside Rack's place in "Two to Go", it sounds to me like Dawn is still the key following "The Gift" and that she could be transformed back into a ball of mystical energy.

 

[Wicked]

That or Willow was so powerful she could turn a person into a ball of energy. She didnt have to turn her into the key Dawn once was.(or still is)

 

[The Arcane]

That or Willow was so powerful she could turn a person into a ball of energy. She didnt have to turn her into the key Dawn once was.(or still is)

Yeah, that is pretty much how i took it. At that point Willow was pretty much able to do anything she wanted. Turning Dawn back into energy (as the Key or not) would have been a piece of cake for her.

 

[watcher1006]

Well, Key or not, there was a limited window or windows of time and place when the Key could be used to open the portals. I don't think it was ever made clear whether the opportunity was a confluence of forces completley outside the control of the characters in Season 5, or if it was something that Glory and her crew had a part in bringing it about.

In other words, even if Dawn remained the Key, there was no certainty about when or if she could open the portals again.

 

[nerd4hire]

Well there is this from the Bargaining in s-6.

DAWN: But I'm fine alone. It's not like anyone's coming after me. I'm not the key. (Spike sets the chair down) Or if I am, I don't open anything any more. It's over. Remember?

What exactly that means though, I don't exactly know. It feels like Joss could change his mind in the future if he felt like it.

 

[The Arcane]

What exactly that means though, I don't exactly know. It feels like Joss could change his mind in the future if he felt like it.

Yeah, i got the feeling it was left ambiguous for a good reason, probably to allow for future Dawn develpment if needed. Like i said earlier on in the thread, there is actually no way of really knowing or testing if Dawn still has "Key potential" until another portal exists that she could possibly have opened. Until then she is just a normal girl either way.