Dawns effect on Buffy and Riley

The Bronze

The Bronze

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Inspired by the lively Riley thread I got to thinking about the timing of things going wrong for Buffy and Riley. It seems to me that the first sign of things going downhill was Riley telling Xander he didn't believe Buffy loved him and that happened really early in Season 5. Does anyone think that Dawn's introduction and the massive effect it had on Buffy could be a root cause of the break up?

By this I don't mean that Dawn personally caused an issue. I simply mean that in Season 4 Riley was dating an only child and in Season 5 this changed to dating an older sibling with a completely different recollection of her upbringing.
 
Damn that Dawn. In addition to attributing to Joyce's death she also played a part in the Riley rift. She was the biggest big bad of them all.
 
Looking back there were warning signs in the Buffy/Riley relationship right from the very beginning.
Buffy lied to him on multiple occassions throughout their relationship. First it was about being the slayer- this is fair enough because 1) The whole point of being the slayer is to try to keep it a secret and maintain a secret ID from people you care about and 2) Riley was lying to Buffy in turn about his own night activities.

But after 'Doomed' Buffy still keeps Riley from a lot of herself and her past. She doesn't come clean about Faith right away, and keeps Angel, her only other significant relationship, a secret right up until the end of 'New Moon Rising'. Even then she doesn't give Riley whole whole truth.
All this built up a false (or perhaps not) impression that Buffy's relationship with Angel was still one of the most important things in Buffy's life even though she's dating someone else. Riley thought that Buffy was always keeping him at a distance.
Then Buffy chooses to lie to Riley about Dawn and really, it's the same pattern repeating itself over, whether Dawn is there or not.

Add to this all of Riley's masculinity issues from 'A New Man' onwards, saying 'I love you' to Faith in Buffy's body before saying it to Buffy, his inability to understand the shades of grey in Buffy's life, his neediness to be needed, it was never going to end well.
 
Yeah I don't think it was perfect in Season 4 by any means. I think it's just the timing of that conversation with Xander that makes me think about the Dawn influence. They just seemed to be in a fairly good place after the events of the Angel crossover were cleared up. The start of Season 5 they look all loved up and then Riley makes his announcement to Xander. Just seems odd to me.
 
It would seem that Dawn and Connor they share the same fate. Both unloved by the fans and both responsible for the end of the love stories of the main characters 🙂

No, seriously, I don't think Dawn has responsibility in all of this, neither in a direct way nor in an indirect way.
The Bronze said:
By this I don't mean that Dawn personally caused an issue. I simply mean that in Season 4 Riley was dating an only child and in Season 5 this changed to dating an older sibling with a completely different recollection of her upbringing.
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All of them perceive the presence of Dawn as if she is always there with them. They don't perceive any difference between "the before" and "the after" Dawn. So, no. I exclude that Dawn is the unwitting cause of the break up between Buffy and Riley.
 
I agree with @janas When it comes to S5, Riley doesn't actually remember dating an only child. His memories have been altered to include Dawn all along so I don't think Dawn's sudden inclusion would have made a difference - because it was only sudden to us, as the viewers.

I think the breakdown of their relationship stems from both of them - Riley's insecurities and Buffy's inability to be completely honest with him. I actually think Buffy's honesty issues have a lot to do with Riley and not just Buffy herself. Riley was part of the Initiative for a long, long time, and I think that Buffy will always be highly suspicious of that, therefore, she holds back to protect herself and her friends and family.
 
Lyri said:
I agree with @janas When it comes to S5, Riley doesn't actually remember dating an only child. His memories have been altered to include Dawn all along so I don't think Dawn's sudden inclusion would have made a difference - because it was only sudden to us, as the viewers.
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I agree it wouldn't have seemed sudden for Riley but that's kind of what I'm getting at. His memories are altered to accommodate Dawn so he remembers things slightly differently from how they actually happened. Maybe looking back over these slightly altered memories and then a few weeks with the new Buffy led him to believe she didn't love him. I just think there's a possibility that he might not have reached this conclusion without the shift in reality.
 
I don't think Dawn mattered here. Riley and Buffy were always going to have issues if you look at their relationship in s4. Riley was always this insecure guy that wanted more, Buffy was always this isolated girl that couldn't give more. Dawn or not Dawn, their problems were the exact same in s5 as they were in s4, which leads me to think the conclusion would have been the same.

But it's an interesting questions to think whether or not Dawn influenced the future, the pass, neither or both (aside from the Glory arc which was directly influenced by Dawn).
 
The Bronze said:
I agree it wouldn't have seemed sudden for Riley but that's kind of what I'm getting at. His memories are altered to accommodate Dawn so he remembers things slightly differently from how they actually happened. Maybe looking back over these slightly altered memories and then a few weeks with the new Buffy led him to believe she didn't love him. I just think there's a possibility that he might not have reached this conclusion without the shift in reality.
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The only negative thing that dawn contributed to Riley's craziness was the Buffy cried a lot with Angel but with you she's happy. BUt the thing is Riley was insecure almost from the beginning, not only the Angel thing but when he learned of Buffy being a slayer and he saw her fight and then learned how much Buffy had done in demon fighting, you see the air come out of Riley's mind, his ego, alpha maleness was deflated. He started to feel small next to buffy,and then he lost his steroid strength, it was all downhill from there.

Riley and Buffy were going down, Dawn or no Dawn
 
The Bronze said:
Inspired by the lively Riley thread I got to thinking about the timing of things going wrong for Buffy and Riley. Does anyone think that Dawn's introduction and the massive effect it had on Buffy could be a root cause of the break up?

By this I don't mean that Dawn personally caused an issue. I simply mean that in Season 4 Riley was dating an only child and in Season 5 this changed to dating an older sibling with a completely different recollection of her upbringing.
Click to expand...

Not the root cause, I don't think, but certainly one of several contributing factors.
 
Possibly the emergence of Dawn changed things insofar as Buffy's orientation changed from being an only child and being more or less just responsible for herself, to becoming the older sister and feeling compelled to be and feel responsible for someone else (her younger sister). This might have changed the character of her relationship with Riley in small ways, even taking into consideration that Riley and Buffy in S5 remember Dawn as always having been there. What I mean is that Buffy's feelings of obligation and responsibility to her sibling might have contributed to her growing distance from Riley. In fact, as I think about this, I definitely believe this was a factor at play in S5. It was yet one more direction for Buffy to be pulled in; her emotions and love and other things were further splintered. But it was a smaller effect by comparison to the other more influential issues already at play between those two (Riley and Buffy). Really, I would prefer looking at the situation (i.e. what I am specifically discussing) holistically and part of a larger context where Buffy's feelings, love and attention were being pulled in many different directions by a lot of things (Joyce and her health, Dawn, etc.), the cumulative effect of which was more strain on her relationship with Riley (working against his insecurity and need for complete devotion and attention, as well as working in tandem with Buffy's already established native inability to get close to someone easily and her growing perceived isolation).

I think speculating Dawn as the "root cause" of their breakup is going much too far though.
 
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Anthony brings some good points. And to me that just reinforces how much Riley and Buffy were incompatible. Seems like in the end, Riley's insecurities went as far as him getting jealous over the fact that Buffy was putting her sister before him. It wasn't *because* of Dawn that they broke up, it was because of Riley's insecurities, and Buffy's lack of opening up to her boyfriend. But in the end, Buffy was even more closed off because she was protecting Dawn (with good reasons), and Riley was even more insecure because Buffy was putting her family first.

Again, I think the results would have been the same with or without Dawn, because the problems were with Buffy and Riley, not Dawn, but having Dawn there might have added a certain dynamic to the relationship.
 
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